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Mike Pereira was the NFL's Vice President of Officiating from 2004-09. He says the hit on FSU's WR Swan, should've been avoided. He doesn't say it was a bad hit, but that Harris & Wort should have avoided it.

8 months ago Tn64_tiny RGiskard 24 comments 0 recs  | 

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I don't think either one of our guys deserve a suspension.

Looking at the replay, it appears that Harris and Wort led with their shoulder pads, but did make contact with the neck/bottom part of the helmet.

Even though that might justify the penalty flag called on the play, it was not a dirty play. Neither one of our guys intentionally hit Shaw that way.

It should only be when a player intentionally hits helmet to helmet that would warrant a suspension.

by ever1809 on Sep 19, 2011 12:51 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree…
but I’ve heard people split about 50/50 on it.

by RGiskard on Sep 19, 2011 3:08 AM CDT reply actions  

They were playing ball

I agree with Fisher. Nothing dirty about it in the sense of intention, but damn, they pelted him and pads didn’t hit his helmet, helmets did. I don’t see how you can punish a football player for playing football. I’ve seen spearing, etc., and those guys should be nailed, but that was just football. Huge play, by the way. I think Nole fans could argue we brought enough to theoretically win but OU was clearly the better team.

Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.

by fmnole on Sep 19, 2011 4:29 AM CDT reply actions  

Spearing is aiming with your head

When you lead with the shoulder, hit with the shoulder, but your helmets still contact at some point during the hit, it’s a clean hit. A hard hit, but a clean hit. Doesn’t make a difference if the receiver is sandwiched, either.

by ClarkusKentus on Sep 19, 2011 6:43 AM CDT reply actions  

I know what "spearing" means

and I know what “lead” means—that’s an easy one because you can see what’s in front. They “led” with their helmets. It wasn’t dirty but it wasn’t form tackling either. Let’s just agree that we’re happy he wasn’t injured.

Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.

by fmnole on Sep 19, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

And FWIW

From Pereira’s explanation, if in doubt, the refs call the penalty because it’s a point of emphasis.

by ClarkusKentus on Sep 19, 2011 6:49 AM CDT reply actions  

From still frames and the video

Harris clearly led with the shoulder and Wort dropped his head just prior to contact. No malice in it, just helmet to helmet and against the rules. Tough play. I wouldn’t want my defense to play it any different, just the way it happened I think calling a PF was the right call just needed to be A LOT sooner and well the refs IMO completely effed that play up.

by fsugrizz on Sep 19, 2011 10:19 AM CDT reply actions  

For the last time

THERE WAS NO HELMET TO HELMET CONTACT!!!

You can come here and say there was 1000 times over, which you’ve done already, but it won’t change anything. Both guys lead with their shoulder and that was what made contact, not their helmets. As far as “leading with your head” from above, their heads are on top of their shoulders. Please explain to me how you could lead with anything but their head?!? Would you have preferred they both did WWE style drop kicks instead?

by Jordan Esco on Sep 19, 2011 10:57 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm hesitantly posting this to try and provide proof of our position

But will immediately take down if you all recommend. Not trying to glorify this kid’s injury, so please voice your opinion if you want it taken down and I will gladly oblige.

by Jordan Esco on Sep 19, 2011 10:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Physically impossible for helmets not to have touched

and Wort is clearly leading with his head and just to happens to avoid Shaw’s helmet. Leading with the helmet is against the rule. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/wortvsshaw.png/
I’m not trying to say its a dirty play but it is physically impossible for contact not to have been made with the helmets.

Let me quote the national coordinator of officials.

“The message is clear that we don’t want these vicious hits to the head that can lead to serious injury,” said Dave Parry, the national coordinator of officials. “And kids who dip their head and go in like a spear can be injured just as badly (as the player who gets hit).”
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2009-09-28-helmet-hits_N.htm

Tom Wort’s helmet is clearly on the same plane as pad and he made no attempt to arm tackle neither did Harris. Please PLEASE dont take this as I think the play was dirty. But according to the rules Tom Wort’s hit was illegal, I wouldn’t try to have him play any other way or take the football instincts out of him.

by fsugrizz on Sep 19, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not trying to say you're wrong

But there is nothing in that above where you can definitively say the helmets made contact liek you’re so adamantly stating.

by Jordan Esco on Sep 19, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

When I said

physically impossible. I meant that the distance from the helmet of Harris to the end of his shoulder pad isn’t much longer then the length of a kenny shaw’s helmet and from the still frame Shaw’s helmet is right on Harris’s shoulder pad. I just feel bad for all of the players all around cause there was not malicious intent on the play.

by fsugrizz on Sep 19, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Crimson glasses have clearly blinded you.

Hoorah for the homers!
This site and its many posters are the most blinded unrestrained homers I’ve seen on any site. Now I just come to observe and laugh. To deny what actually happened despite video evidence – absolutely amazing, but not surprising in the least.
For some to say it was a clean and legal hit just demonstrates the magnitude of their ignorance about the rules of the game. Hint: When tackling a guy, you should aim for something below the earlobe because striking a guy on the head to tackle him is illegal regardless of whether you spear him in the head, drive your shoulder into his head, or give him a flying forearm to the head. We can argue about whether two different guys delivering brutal hits to the head at the same time to the same player who clearly had them beat for a touchdown was merely coincidental or some sort of freak double accident, but it wouldn’t do much good. Denying that the play happened is like denying a man has ever walked on the moon. If you don’t believe the video evidence, nothing I say will change your minds. The players delivering said hits have great body control as exhibited on their interceptions and they are coached well enough to know to tackle below the earlobe.

The OU fans who showed up to the game were decent classy people who appeared to be level headed and fairly objective. I thank them for coming and hope they enjoyed the game. They represented OU well. In honesty, your band chicks are some of the ugliest I’ve seen but your cheerleaders made up for that. Overall, the game was fairly evenly played. FSU had troubles on the interior O-line and OU wisely capitalized as a very well-coached team should. It was evident in our inability to run and with the OU blitzes late in the game. No run game + immobile freshman QB + FSU O-line problems = lots of successful blitzing and pressure. It is pretty ridiculous to read the post-game breakdowns on C&C and read that any OU player dominated or destroyed anything. The MVPs of the game were the Big 12 / OU refs. The only dominating and destroying that was done by OU was the result of the illegal hits above. For most of the game the OU fans had a nervous WTF? look on their faces while watching the FSU D shut down the OU offensive machine that was supposed to be able to score at will according to your own posters. OU ran 67 plays, had a piddly 4.2 YPP ave. couldn’t stick it in when in the redzone, was lucky on some low line-drive field goals, and got a fabulous play by Kenny Stills to rip an INT out of Greg Ried’s hands for a TD. It was two great players making a great play and Stills wound up on top.

Make no mistake, OU DID NOT WIN THE GAME. It was handed to the by the Sooner refs. You will not find another post I have made in the past 3 years where I have ever complained about officiating, but this was the most extremely one-sided and poorly called game I can remember. It is far worse that what happened to OU at Oregon because the officiating was consistently poor and one-sided all game long. If we have Big 10 or Big east officials, OU loses by 2-3 touchdowns. Stills had a great game. Other than that, the only domination for OU came from the refs. Congrats on receiving a gift. I also admire OU for finally playing a true away game against a decent team and appreciating what a true away game is.

by NoleLaw on Sep 20, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

And you Sir are obviously vision impaired due to Garnet & Gold spectacles

I would think that someone whose moniker is NoleLaw would be more accustomed to examining evidence, but it seems that is not the case. In every replay and close up I’ve seen of the hit on Shaw, his helmet does NOT move or deflect from either side.

Your other two paragraphs show the same kool-ade drinking homerism you say we practice.

Make no mistake, OU DID NOT WIN THE GAME. It was handed to the by the Sooner refs.

This delusion speaks for itself.

by It'sTheVoice on Sep 20, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

the game was poorly officiated from BOTH sides. That is a moot point.
The game was won because when OU had to rise up & move the ball, your defense was unable to stop them. PERIOD. When the game was on the line the Nole defense was unable to get the pressure it needed. Reid got burned, as we repeatedly told you he would by Stills. Stills made a play that Reid couldnt break up. When your vaunted defense had to stop OU after a turnover, you let a walk on RB shove it down your throats for 37 yards. THAT is why you lost the game. Not refs or any other reason.

I enjoyed tallahassee, thanks for the banter. But you sir can remove your garnet glasses. As you spoke earlier " Or GIVE HIM A FLYING FOREARM TO THE HEAD"… thats a text book definition of the play your DB made on Kenny Stills. Hello POT meet KETTLE.

by OU JJ on Sep 20, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

So what is your excuse

For “Seminole Physics”, EJ the destroyer, your massive O line, the 6 NFL grade D lineman, and my favorite, the FSU 3 man rush for a sack? (That DID happen, but it was OU doing it, btw)

YOU LOST THE GAME. Fair and square.

Yet one more Nole whiner. To bad no one else, across the country, agrees with your laughable assessment.

Huzzah for the Nole Loser Homer! Huzzah!

And huzzah for your cheap shot artist defense. They sure didn’t like getting stood up to and punched in the gut. There is plenty of video as to their cheap shot artist response.

You had better hope your team is focused on Clemson and not whining like you are.

seriously…..when was the last time you went to Ames? ever?

by PA Sooner 95 on Sep 20, 2011 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly in this replay & the "body language" landing

Wort has almost a protective type shoulder reaction, like he saw it coming, but couldn’t take it back & tried to roll it a bit… Idk, he just has a weird ending position…

by OU JJ on Sep 19, 2011 12:27 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

what it looks like to me is

Shaw was starting to slump from the Harris hit, a fraction of a second later Wort is in line to hit Shaw however Shaw’s knees are buckling and he has started to fall backwards. Wort coming the fraction of a second later than Harris is already turning his body slightly to lead with his shoulder and actually misses Shaw’ s shoulder and the should hit’s Harris and the facemask of Shaw. It is the Harris hit that send the Shaw reeling.

The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.

by scarab on Sep 19, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm getting tired of this rule....

What’s next? You can’t hit a guy in the legs because you may blow out his knee? Personally that was a great aggressive play. No malice was intended. I’m very thankful the FSU player wasn’t seriously injured; however football is a hard hitting sport. I don’t hear any FSU fans talking about the forearm shiver to Kenny Stills that didn’t draw a flag. In the end it was an intense defensive game. OU sent a message that you can’t swim in the shark tank. Good luck to FSU the rest of the year. Maybe we will meet again in the championship game.

My greatest fear in life is that no one will remember me after I'm dead -some dead guy

by buzz70 on Sep 19, 2011 3:49 PM CDT reply actions  

WUSSBALL, that is what is next

The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.

by scarab on Sep 19, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Somewhere I saw a clip….
that showed the hit from the end zone. From that view point it looked a lot different. That the helmets didn’t hit like in the clip above. It just showed a good hard hit.

by RGiskard on Sep 19, 2011 4:49 PM CDT reply actions  

consider the angle and watch Wort's body movements along with Harris and Shaw. There was no helment leading

and no helmet to helmet contact. Wort’s should hits the face mask but Shaw’s is already dropping by that point. Wort hit Harris harder than he he hit Shaw.

The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.

by scarab on Sep 19, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

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