Are Oklahoma and Oklahoma State REALLY A Package Deal?
by Redhawk on Aug 12, 2011 3:42 PM CDT
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So the big assumption around the world (or at least in the areas that care about College Football) is that the University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State University are a packaged deal. There is no way to separate the 2. Like buying a package of Twinkies…you can’t get just one…we are bound together forever, and ever, amen.
But is that REALLY true?
Oklahoma and Oklahoma A&M/State haven’t always been in the same conference. OU and OKA&M were once founding members of the Southwest Conference in 1915 (along with Southwestern State!). OU left the Southwest Conference in 1920, leaving OKA&M behind. OU joined the Missouri Valley Intercollegiate Athletic Association where they were joined by the Pokes in 1925.
So that’s 5 years the 2 schools were in different conferences.
But the winds of Conference Realignment were not done blowing. In 1928 the Missouri Valley split up. OU, Kansas, Kansas St., Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa State kept the name the Missouri Valley IAA and started their own conference, leaving OKA&M behind along with Drake, Washington U of St. Louis, Creighton, and Grinnell College. They also kept the name the Missouri Valley Conference.
To help with the confusion of 2 Missouri Valley’s, the media started calling one group, the Big Six. Colorado would join them in 1948, and eventually the Pokes, now Oklahoma State would join in 1958 as the final member of the Big Eight Conference.
That’s a full THIRTY YEARS that OU and OSU were not in the same conference. Add in the previous 5 and OU and OSU have been in separate conferences for 35 years of the 94 years OU has been in a conference!
So is OU really a package deal with OSU?
Well, first off, is there a LEGAL requirement? No…it is not in the Oklahoma State Constitution, which I’ve actually spent time looking at when I was arguing last year that OU and OSU HAD to stay together….Teaches me to parrot crap from WWLS radio. I would assume there is no statue if it’s not in the Constitution.
What is in the Oklahoma Constitution is how the Oklahoma Higher Education Systems are set up. Oklahoma State has its own system which has it a "Board of Regents". This system includes: All the Oklahoma State Universities and branches, Conner’s State, NE A&M, Langston, and Panhandle State.
The University of Oklahoma is in a separate system that consists of OU and its branches OU-Health Sciences and OU-Tulsa, Cameron State, and Rogers State. Each school has its own President, but with one "Board of Regents"
Both systems then report to and are governed by "The Oklahoma State Board of Regents for Higher Education" The Oklahoma State Regents for Higher Education is the statewide coordinating board of control for the state's colleges and universities, nine constituent agencies and two higher education programs.(for the record there is a third system, and that is of the directional schools)
The Board of Regents for Higher Education though is only for matter of education, not athletics. They have little or no say as to what conference a University joins for Athletics. The members of this board are also members of OSU’s Regents and OU’s Regents, for the most part (though not all)
In Oklahoma, the Board of Regents are appointed by the Governor of the State of Oklahoma, and they get to serve as long as they want. Being a Regent in Oklahoma isn’t a full time job, and I don’t think they get paid. Most are wealthy and successful businessmen that love their schools.
Wow…that was boring…but the point to understand is OU and OSU are in two separate systems. What one does is not governed by the other. They are completely separate!
But, the final member, and the final authorizing authority over both boards is the Governor. It’s his/her responsibility that the schools are acting in the best interest of the people of the state, and that includes the other school’s system. Since he/she appoints the BOR he can have them replaced. The Governor has final veto.
The Educational systems do not go to or answer to the Oklahoma State Senate or State Congress. The only control the legislature has is funding and budget approvals as submitted by the Governor from the Board of Regents.
So, the only LEGAL tie the 2 schools have is through the Governor. That’s it…no more, no less. The Governor would have to decide if one school left for an athletic conference and left the other behind if that was beneficial to the state and to the citizens…that’s it. I would think it would be a hard decision for a Governor to veto something that was approved and deliberated over by a Board that he/she appointed to do that very job.
So, where is OU and OSU tied? It’s more culturally and family ties than anything else. OU’s President David Boren while Governor established OSU’s fine veterinary school, which is still named after him. OSU’s President Burns Hargis got his law degree from OU. Mrs. Molly Boren also went to school at OSU.
Those are some tight family ties….but that’s the ONLY thing that ties OU to OSU….tight family ties.
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But how powerful are those “tight family ties”?
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
that's the $60,000 question
For the SEC or the PACX probably pretty tight….for the BIG, not as tight.
But if this gets to be a game of musical chairs, and their is only one chair left….OU will take it.
Well then, I personally would like Oklahoma in the SEC. Okie State, not so much. It’s nothing against them (and T Boone) but yeah. Rather have Oklahoma.
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
well from our side
we aren’t so crazy about the SEC at the moment…but if you take both of us, it becomes more doable. But for the BIG10…hell we’d push our mother over to get to.
There is no room for Okie State.
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
Most likely.
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
Gotta say I have a real problem with that
The fact that a good number are so against going to the SEC kind of infuriates me. And for Boren to be against the SEC for academic reasons? Please! OU is at significant risk of finding itself on the outside looking in. If the PAC 12 is still interested, what kind of deal are we going to get now? For just us and not Texas?
I could go on about the slavish devotion they have shown to Texas, but I’ll just content myself with pointing out the ratings bonanza that would await in the SEC as opposed to lackluster games against Utah, Colorado, or even Arizona. At the same time it is still the choice that makes sense geographically, to say nothing of the potential recruiting advantage. And for those who just prefer an easier road to a championship, I would ask when we became afraid of competition. That is more likely the road to eventual obsolescence.
by leatherneck1061 on Aug 12, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
If with you.
I don’t fully understand the opposition to joining the SEC. In fact, I will be very, very unhappy if they go Big 10 or Pac.
Very.
If you train people properly, they won't be able to tell a drill from the real thing. If anything, the real thing will be easier. --Richard Marcinko
The SEC would be awesome
But it’s the culture that turns a lot of people off. Can you imagine the SEC SEC chant coming from Sooners fans? I hope I never hear that!
by IBleedCrimsonandCream on Aug 12, 2011 7:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think the SEC culture would be more comfortable, as a fan.
In all fairness, they don’t chant that when playing conference opponents.
Personally, I find their support for conference teams against those outside the conference commendable.
If you train people properly, they won't be able to tell a drill from the real thing. If anything, the real thing will be easier. --Richard Marcinko
Not sure of the source now
but his opposition for supposedly academic reasons has been referenced a couple of times today on this website. As for recruiting, Stoops has recruited successfully in the SEC already, and we would still have a strong recruiting presence in Texas – especially with kids who want to play in the SEC anyway. I still say this is the best option. But then my opinion is nothing more than the ranting of a peon I guess.
by leatherneck1061 on Aug 12, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I’ve never mentioned academics in the SEC as a bad thing…just that the Big10 has money (they share Large Fed Research Grants amongst the Universities) for academics which would be a boost to OU.
I’ve personally been all over of which way would be best. For a football fan, I prefer the SEC over the Pac12, but the Big10 would be so great for the University and personally I think football would be good too, but, I never thought that was a real option, even a remote one until yesterday.
I think we end up in the Pac12 by the way, if you made me pick tonight.
What happened to make the Big 10 a real option
I had heard before they just didn’t want us. ???
by leatherneck1061 on Aug 12, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
well...how much of an option
there are a few things….
1) we asked…
2) this conference musical chairs seems to open things up at least to court…
3) we made it as a Tier 1 academic school, which is the top schools
4) Nebraska….once they are in, we look less “odd” to the Big 10
not saying we have a good shot…just that we are above 0%
The big 10 sucks..
Football wise. And no rational fan is going to drive to the other side of the country 7 times a year. This big 10 concept will hurt us in the long run.
by jbb10 on Aug 13, 2011 9:39 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Travel
is going to suck anyway this breaks out.
So, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio St, Michigan, and Penn State all suck?
The last four destinations...
…would blow and suck, simultaneously.
If you train people properly, they won't be able to tell a drill from the real thing. If anything, the real thing will be easier. --Richard Marcinko
I take it
you’ve never been to Wisconsin or Minnesota in the fall. It’s pretty glorious.
why is a game at Bama, more exciting than a game at Ohio State?
Glorious to me is Montana and Idaho.
I’ve driven up as far as the Penn State area to attend an old USAF buddies wedding. I didn’t like anything about it, the food, the angle of the Sun, the roads battered to He** from all the salt, the rust, from Illinois East it just all seemed so gray and gloomy.
I’m a Son of the South, I like the temperatures down here, the angle of the Sun, the food, the roads and knowing I will be able to understand what folks are saying and will understand me.
Asking for sweet iced tea shouldn’t draw blank looks.
I’ve been lots of places, seen lots of things, that part of the country is too remote in terms of culture and distance.
If you train people properly, they won't be able to tell a drill from the real thing. If anything, the real thing will be easier. --Richard Marcinko
Can't argue with B1G, but
I will not be pleased if OSU is the reason that Oklahoma plays a Pac-16 East conference slate every year instead of an SEC West conference schedule every year.
That pic is disturbing
"Fast Eddie: No bar?
Cashier: No bar, no pinball machines, no bowling alleys, just pool... nothing else. This is Ames, mister."
From the movie--The Hustler
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
yeah, Pete is more of an outlaw to start with...
and I don’t like how he is looking at those horses—run away! I know McNeese St. is a small school, but I like their Cowboy mascot a whole lot more than Scary Pete, Rowdy has a hard nosed look, but at least he looks more like an old cowhand,
"Fast Eddie: No bar?
Cashier: No bar, no pinball machines, no bowling alleys, just pool... nothing else. This is Ames, mister."
From the movie--The Hustler
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
Just found the site
I’m not even sure how i stumbled here but I’m glad i did, I’m a huge Sooner fan, this is a little off topic but has anybody heard anything on Ronnell Lewis and if he’ll be eligable this year?
"I feel sorry for peple who don't drink, when they wake up in the morning thats as good as they are gonna feel all day long." Frank Sinatra
Tell all your friends to join this site. They are pretty inciteful here.
by IBleedCrimsonandCream on Aug 12, 2011 6:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Not sure if you meant to spell it that way
But it’s hilarious nonetheless.
New Orleans, here we come.
by KratosWasASooner on Aug 13, 2011 3:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Welcome aboard pitbull!
Like they said above, we’re happy to have you and would love to have all your OU friends!
"You see we got another championship banner up? It’s not a South Division one, either." Bob Stoops
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans
Thanks man
"I feel sorry for peple who don't drink, when they wake up in the morning thats as good as they are gonna feel all day long." Frank Sinatra
Wait a sec..
Wasn’t there a post on ronnell Lewis a few weeks ago on the main page that said something like “it’s official Lewis is eligible to terrorize quarterbacks this fall!”…maybe I’m just out of the loop…I thought his eligibility was no longer an issue…something new happen?
It was thought to be
But then Lewis was quoted during the local media day saying “It’s out of my hands now” so that has lead to an unexpected development in the story. By all accounts, up to this point, the expectation is that he’ll be just fine. But obviously that won’t be official to grades are in and the school releases an official statement.
"You see we got another championship banner up? It’s not a South Division one, either." Bob Stoops
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans
hey just a random question...
what does pca stand for in your name pcasooner?
by texas-sooner on Aug 13, 2011 2:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Shouldn’t Metoyer already be on campus…his summer classes ended this week I think…maybe he reports Monday!!!
Premature report
I’m in oklahoma, the report on lewis was a bit premature, he still had some tests to take and i guess he’s still awaiting the results, There’s a radio station here and they have an OU insider on everyday and today he said he thought they would announce something later today. As for metoyer I think he’s awaiting the NCAA clearing house and then he’ll be good to go.
"I feel sorry for peple who don't drink, when they wake up in the morning thats as good as they are gonna feel all day long." Frank Sinatra
^this^
NCAA Clearinghouse timeline is impossible to predict sadly.
"You see we got another championship banner up? It’s not a South Division one, either." Bob Stoops
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans
While we are at it…jte…any updates on recruiting news? Just read about the Michigan transfer, but wondered if we have made any headway with banner, Goldman, Avery young, and if we are still the presumed leaders for DGB, thought?
Very little honestly
It’s a pretty quiet time right now with respect to recruiting. The coaches are obviously focused on the season and preseason practices and not out recruiting. The thought is that OU is still in the lead for DGB, albeit a slight lead, but there is really no way to know that for sure because the kid and his family just don’t do interviews. There was talk of an Avery Young official visit to Norman a couple weeks back, but nothing about that since then.
"You see we got another championship banner up? It’s not a South Division one, either." Bob Stoops
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans
reply to redhawk
first, athletics are part of the educational system. the state board of higher regents do have a say about what goes on in sports at any of the public colleges in the state. and your assumption that since the board isn’t full time, and consequently would not be an issue, is assuming that pickens doesn’t place gratuities where the best interests of silo tech can be protected. that would be the governor, legislators, and probably some pundits who who have been given scrips to stick to when and if it comes up, detailing their absolute distaste for a split. the fact is that as long as picken’s is allowed to be silo tech’s private super pac, the aggies are tied to ou coat tails.
They can scream and cry and pontificate all they want…that’s not any type of control or veto power.
As far as the regents my experience is these gals and guys do it for the love of the University and for the sense of giving back. They aren’t in it for the money or the power, so it’s not like they can be threatened or bought. They are appointed, but my point was there is no lose of money/power if they are replaced…it’s a thankless job, which they work hard at, on top of their real jobs.
You forget for every OSU fan on any board or legislature that has no real power, there is an OU fan.
Now…..I wouldn’t try to split from OSU while the Governor is an OSU alumni. That’s the only tie, and veto.
Gottlieb
Now saying that A&M, Clemson, FSU and Mizzou to the SEC! Heard anything?
by soonergal5 on Aug 13, 2011 9:27 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I haven't heard anything new
I had heard FSU turned down the SEC on Friday…
This would be a “development” if there is anything besides pure speculation. (and there is a LOT of pure speculation being tossed out as News when it comes to realignment)
It was a "Sources confirm" text message...
Guess we will see!
by soonergal5 on Aug 13, 2011 10:15 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If it's got "legs"
then it’s on like donkey kong
and leaving only the Pac12 or the BIG for OU homes (cause the Longhorn Conference isn’t going to work for OU)
Agreed on mizzou
Can’t believe you Sooners are about to let Osu and healthy competition (more exciting games) lead the SEC to give your seat to mizzou.
It’s your seat for the taking if your admin would ask or show interest in leaving Texas.
You are about to make a mistake.. Esp if the PAC and Texas can’t come to terms over the lhn. Join us. Come east.
by H ouston on Aug 13, 2011 10:51 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
if your admin would ask or show interest in leaving Texas.
I want to squash that perception before it gets bigger. Just because our administration isn’t negotiating in public (which is very smart) doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything, or sticking with Texas. OU is planning on doing the best for OU in a shifting landscape of Multi-Million dollar game of musical chairs.
I hope so
Had a thought.. posted it in the newest article, but wanted your take on it since you appear to always be on top of things.
Could a SEC invite to Mizzou instead of OU be strategic on the part of the SEC as to not derail the superconferences? OU to the SEC would really hurt the PAC’s options.. but more importantly perhaps the PAC’s desire to expand to 16.
I don't think there is that much
coordination or planning.
Personally I think the SEC and OU talked, and OU wasn’t that crazy about joining. (seriously Boren HATES the recruiting culture in the SEC)
so in an SEC world it would probably be what... for giggles sake
OU/ARK/Ole Miss/MSU/LSU/Tenn/another invite or A&M in a division perhaps?
then PAC would be a Utah/Colo/ASU/Zona/OU/OSU or Tech & a mystery team?
most likely?
If you are making me pick today
SEC: would be OU, OSU, A&M, ARK, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St (and an existing SEC team, moving over, but TEN, Bama, Auburn, all break up rivalry’s ) Reasoning: we really don’t want the SEC…only way I think we go, is if they take OSU too, making the deal less repugnant to David Boren.
Pac: Utah, Colorado, OU, OSU, AZ, ASU, Tech, and mystery team..which my wild guess would be Kansas (and yeah, there are a ton of reasons why that is way out there) or maybe even TCU.
OU + OSU = more long term value than A&M
wouldnt that be fun.
Not a fan of SEC but that division is very winnable. And the travel/visibility is higher. I am not fond of Big 10 move. From a recruit’s standpoint PAC is probably a little higher than playing in the north in the winter.
In recent football success? Yes
In bringing tv sets and money to the SEC? Not so sure.
Oklahoma LAW
" I would assume there is no statue if it’s not in the Constitution."
no statue…? Statue of who…?
by Michael Alexander on Aug 13, 2011 3:12 PM CDT reply actions
Really?
Thanks for your outstanding contribution
"You see we got another championship banner up? It’s not a South Division one, either." Bob Stoops
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans
by Jordan Esco on Aug 13, 2011 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would LOVE
for OU to join the big 10, but only for purely selfish reasons. I currently live in central Illinois, and I rarely get to watch OU on TV. OU being on Big 10 TV every week would be a wonderful thing for me! Plus I would also love to see OU whipping the holy hell out of Ohio State, Michigan, and Wisconsin. I would have to watch an OU vs Illinois game on tape delay though… That way I could pause the game until the nitro pills took effect…
OTOH, I think the nationally perceived “tougher competition” would be better if they joined the SEC…
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
Honnor thy father - D. Vader (Robert Asprin, Myth series)
by burpchelischili on Aug 28, 2011 12:51 PM CDT reply actions
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