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Diagnosing the Bob Stoops/Brent Venables defense

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Ok, so I know this past the point of getting old but I have one more thing I need to get out of my system and then I swear I'm moving on.  Just to get this out of the way right up front, this isn't some tirade calling for Bob Stoops and/or Brent Venables to be fired.  Rather it's what I believe to be a legitimate critique of the defensive system/scheme Stoops chose to implement when he arrived and that both he and Venables continue to employ. 

A minor aside though, I have always found it to be humorous that Venables can be ripped up and down for poor defensive performances by some OU fans all the while these same people believe Stoops to be beyond reproach.  It's funny because of the hypocrisy that they apparently fail to grasp.  Stoops is/was a defensive coach, it's his system, and while Venables certainly has earned the right to add to it, at th end of the day he's running what Stoops wants him to run.  But that's not what this is about, so let me get back to the point.

From what I can tell, there are two glaring issues with this defensive scheme and we'll address them one at a time.

     1. It's outdated

     2. It's too complicated

We'll discuss the reasons why behind both points after the jump.

Star-divide

Point #1

What I mean by "it's outdated" is it's essentially the exact same scheme that was installed 13 years ago when Stoops arrived.  I don't mean in the literal sense that they do exactly the same thing and that in the last 13 years they have never done a single thing different.  They've developed different packages off of it, the most recent examples being this year's 'Endy' package (with the four DEs) or the three man line they've employed several times, but at the heart of what they do on defense very little has changed.

The glaring problem with that is the near 180 degree transformation this league has made from an offensive perspective.  Back when Stoops arrived, this league was nowhere near the offensive passing juggernaut that it is today and yet in spite of that the Stoops/Venables defensive scheme has failed to adapt to the drastic changes in the offenses they face week in and week out.

What is so baffling about it is the fact that they've been more than willing to adapt their system on the other side of the ball to suit the talent they bring in.  When they had Heupel, they ran a spread offense to utilize his skills and ability to read the defense.  When they had Peterson, they went predominantly I-formation so as to tailor their offense around his considerable talents.  Then they get Bradford and go back to the spread and install the no huddle.  I could go on, but I think you see my point.  So the $64,000 (or I guess $5 million question would be more appropriate these days) is why has that not been the case with respect to the defense?!?  I can't stress how confusing this is to me, that they have made such drastic changes in their offensive philosophy and have now come back full circle and yet here they are 13 years later still trying to fit a square peg into a round freaking hole.

Point #2

This probably sounds like a petty argument, but it's one that I feel to be fair because of the frequency of which I've read/heard it confirmed from former players.  If you think about it, it's pretty rare for a first or second year defensive player to come into this scheme and be successful.  Now I suppose you could say that about most programs across the country and that I feel OU is higher than others because I follow it more closely than any other.  And you might have a point.  But that said, I ask you does it make sense that a seemingly high percentage of defensive players cannot grasp the scheme and thus really don't see significant playing time until their third year on campus (with the noted occasional exception)?

To me that would signify that the scheme you're operating is overly complex and if you can believe former defensive players who have admitted as much, then wouldn't it make sense to simplify things just a little?  It's not as if all the defensive recruits that OU brings in aren't intelligent (save the comments trolls) and it's certainly not as if there is some sort of physical limitation preventing them from picking it up.  OU isn't just a football factory no matter what any idiot from an opposing fan base would have you believe and considering the recruiting classes Stoops has been pulling in since his arrival clearly that's not the issue.

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've heard from Stoops and/or Venables that 'first or second year player X' is having trouble picking up the defensive so despite his considerable athletic gifts they just didn't feel comfortable enough putting him out there.  I can think of almost no better player to use as an example than Curtis Lofton.  Understand I don't think it's as black and white as I'm about to make it, but without scouring the internet to see if there was some report of an injury keeping him off the field I feel like this is a pretty solid example. 

Sooner Nation knows it only got one real year out of Lofton before he moved onto the NFL.  In that year he played about as well as any OU MLB which given this school's football history is no small compliment.  I think we all know this defense well enough that it's fair to say the MLB is typically the QB of a Venables defense.  So I think it's also fair to say there was a considerable amount of responsibilities for Lofton besides just tackling the guy with the ball.  And it was seemingly because of all those responsibilities that Lofton had to learn that presumably kept him off the field for those first couple years he was on campus. 

I'm sure I'm not making the compelling argument on paper as I saw it in my head, so I'll try and simplify it to help better relay my point.  In my opinion, it shouldn't take a kid 2-3 years just to learn the system well enough to earn the coaches confidence to put him out on the field.  Am I crazy or does that seem like a ridiculously long time?  It's one thing if a kid just isn't physically ready to play at this level.  I think it's normal a lot of times for a h.s. recruit to come in and need a year or two for his body to develop.  What I don't feel is normal is to have a defense that by your own ex-players admission is so complex and has so many intricacies that it takes most players several years just to grasp.

Maybe I'm wrong and if so I'd be more than willing to admit it, but I just don't feel it's necessary to have a defensive scheme that is that difficult to pick up.  Aside from the fact that it's been responsible for the two worst yards allowed performances in this school's illustrious 117 football seasons, it's as simple as the fact that it's just not working right now.  And I think it's fair to say it hasn't been working very well for a couple years. 

It sounds stupid that it could really be this simplistic, but in spite of myself I genuinely believe that it actually is really this simple.  I don't think it requires Brent Venables to be fired.  I certainly don't think it requires Bob Stoops to leave.  All I think they have to do is exactly what they've done on the offensive side of the ball.  Simply be willing to adapt and change your defensive philosophy.  I'm not sure why it seems to be such a scary or daunting task for them, I mean we thought we might have seen it last year when they unleashed that 50-front defense.  It worked incredibly well and yet here we are 10 games into 2011 and if they've gone back to that at all it's been so infrequent that I can hardly remember an instance where it happened.

I'll repeat.  Nobody has to get fired.  Just update your defense like you've done for the offense.  If Stoops and Venables refuse to admit that it's a problem, which is sadly I feel the most likely scenario though I'm not sure how that is humanly possible given what we've witnessed this season, then and only then can you maybe start talking about changes needing to be made.  But it's so easily avoidable if they'd just reexamine what they do and look to tweak it. 

Let me also just clarify one more point before we finish.  Bringing back Mike Stoops isn't the magic cure for this defense.  Would it help?  Sure, maybe, but obviously only time would tell.  I don't think they need to bring Mike back just to make the updates tho this scheme that are so clearly needed.  So while I think he could certainly bring something to this defense, I'm certainly not of the opinion that he is some miracle worker and that him coming back immediately restores us to a dominant defense.

Ok, it's officially out of my system (for now).  If you're still with me and haven't already rolled your eyes and cursed me for yet another way too long JTE rant, thank you for putting up with one last tirade.  

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Stop?, it's only Tuesday

The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.

by scarab on Nov 22, 2011 5:30 PM CST reply actions  

Gerald McCoy.

Gerald freakin McCoy redshirted. There is 2.

:-)

by OU JJ on Nov 22, 2011 5:33 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

I think Stoops loyalty goes to his players as well,

if a player is doning ‘okay’ or is ‘great’ then they will get the nod over a Fr, Soph or even Junior unless the younger player is just a lights out defensive person. They are always saying that they are putting the best player on the field but I don’t alwasy believe that.

Case in point is on the other side of the ball, Adam Shead. Forget about his penalty Saturday for a moment, you cannot tell me and expect me to believe that Shead has just now become a good blocker. It took Habern being injured for Shead to sniff the field. I am sure the same goes on the Defensive side of the ball

The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.

by scarab on Nov 22, 2011 5:40 PM CST reply actions  

Oh, I'm not saying

He won’t play young players, far from it. I’m just saying it’s the certainly the exception rather than the rule, but that isn’t always because of the scheme of course.

by Jordan Esco on Nov 22, 2011 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

"They are always saying that they are putting the best player on the field,

but I don’t alwasy believe that." That’s not just these coaches, that’s every top coach in the country. I don’t know why you wouldn’t believe that—what coach in his right mind would intentionally not play the best player, unless it was a discipline issue. As far as youth goes, I’m Stoops is I think a leader in getting young guys on the field. I’m sure you guys are aware that last year 13 members of the 2010 recruiting class played as true freshmen, including two who started the first game of the season. At least 6 freshmen were used as starters during the season. I don’t think that reflects any reluctance to play young guys, if they’re ready.

by soonermusic on Nov 22, 2011 10:11 PM CST up reply actions  

True, hes willing to start young players…
But the last 2 years its because he had to. true they had the talent. but also because of injuries.

by RGiskard on Nov 22, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions  

The Scheme

First, I believe that the scheme that we are running can be effective against spread throwing teams. I do believe there is a fallacy when comparing offense to defense because as a defense you don’t dictate what plays the offense calls but are charged with defending them.

 Secondly, I believe that the defense it not ran through the MLB but it designed so the WLB is the playmaker. This dates back to Rocky Calmus, Teddy Lehman (who moved from MLB to OLB), Rufus Alexander, Clint Ingram and Travis Lewis and if I am not mistaken I believe it was Curtis Lofton who played the WLB and Ryan Reynolds who was in the middle. That being said this defense goes as the WLB goes and WLB this year is having a subpar year relative to the expectations of past WLBs in this system of the Stoops era.

 Lastly, this system has been flexible over the years but this year’s development of our secondary has been an issue (non-existent) that can’t be overlooked. When we have had a good 3rd corner our defense has been light years better and handles the spread with relative ease. This year we have been unable to develop a 3rd corner and we have tried to cover slot recievers with a hurt Travis Lewis and Tony Jefferson rather using a corner to jam those slot recievers. The coaches continue to force the 3-3-5 alignment which put us at a disadvantage speed wise against spread teams. We aren’t really good in coverage and lack a pass rush which makes it difficult to stop the spread. The strong reasoning for bringing in Mike Stoops is the belief that he will be respected enough that his ideas/changes will be implemented.

Ripdawg

by seespr97 on Nov 22, 2011 7:36 PM CST reply actions  

This scheme will never truly be "effective"

As long as it consistently matches up LBs and safeties one-on-one with #1 WRs. Ever.

by Jordan Esco on Nov 22, 2011 7:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Coverage

Never has made much sense to put out you best cover corner on the team’s #1 receiver. That corner is probably going to get beat half the time and personnel are being wasted covering lesser threats. Makes more sense to put your best corner on their #2 receiver, a match-up the D should win virtually every time and roll coverage over the #1 wr (double team him or man-zone him). OU LBs are not traditional LBS—most are under 225 and can run.

"Are you gonna do something or just stand there and bleed?"

by blaster1371 on Nov 23, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

This

times a million.

If you look at the other post — of the game’s final play — Tom Wort is on the field. Why? He’s a MLB who does a damned good job in the right situation but in a situation like that we need an extra DB on the field. We’ve got 3 DLs, 3 LBs and 5 DBs for that final play. We either need another true pass rusher or a true cover guy and not a run-defending MLB. Granted, we’re just talking about 1 play but it’s emblematic of what happens far too frequently with the defense.

by chuckb on Nov 24, 2011 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Big 12 isn't

a defensive powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination. Look at Rivals.com stats, if you go by ppg, Texas is the top ranked team at number 26, allowing 20.6 ppg, OU comes in next at #35 allowing 22.3 ppg. I am not going to go all stat geek on here but go take a look, its hard to find a Big 12 school anywhere in the top of any category. So…the opportunity is there, someone will take advantage of it, hopefully its us.
JTE, your point about this being Stoops defense is a good one, a point I didn’t consider. Changing coordinators will do little good without losing the complacency that seems to permeate this program right now.

"Nonsense. By all means, move." Doc Holliday, the movie Tombstone.

by kcsoonerfan on Nov 22, 2011 8:57 PM CST reply actions  

that is because texass is good

at sucking!

The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.

by scarab on Nov 23, 2011 7:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you on all your points…but..

While Mike isn’t a cure all to the defensive problems, he was the only coach under Bob that was willing to tell Bob he was wrong. Their arguments were legendary. And maybe that’s why Mike needs to come back to the staff.

by RGiskard on Nov 22, 2011 9:27 PM CST reply actions  

Now this I couldn't not possibly agree w/ more

I’ve heard this exact same thing several times from reliable sources and I very much believe it to be true. I ABSOLUTELY think this is something Bob needs right now and I’d almost say that alone is enough reason to bring Mike back.

by Jordan Esco on Nov 23, 2011 7:01 AM CST up reply actions  

A strong voice not afraid to tell Bob he is wrong

Thats what Mike Stoops would bring. Does it mean OU’s D would be invincible? No, but I worry that Brent, who ‘s always been a mentee of Bob’s does not have the courage to disagree in no uncertain terms with Bob’s “Bend but don’t break” philosophy. It’s too reactive and you want the oopposing offense to have to scheme and react to what your D might do, rather than always having the D in that position. Keep Brent, find the $500,000 to pay Mike, and make them Co -Coordinators.

by Jake Gittes on Nov 25, 2011 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Busy minds make slow legs

100% in agreement that the system is overly complex.

by SCKSChief on Nov 23, 2011 7:46 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Defense

I agree 100 % changes are needed. OU does a nice job recruiting these young men but for some reason they never learn to defend the pass. If you notice all passing teams give OU fits. OU needs to put more heat on the opposing QB’s with more Blitzes and keep them nervous and hurried. Have they ever studied Dion Sanders plays and moves.
Just a couple of my thoughts.

by fire ball on Nov 23, 2011 9:57 AM CST reply actions  

Good post

Surprisingly I agree with all of it, and I have no problem with bringing Mike back – especially if, as some speculate, Venables is heading elsewhere for another HC position anyway; I add that probable precondition only because Stoops sort of hinted he would hire Mike “if he had the money”. It doesn’t sound like he’s sure he can bring in another person right now. But if we suddenly find ourselves without a DC, bringing Mike in would make complete sense as it would probably be a more seamless transition than bringing in someone completely different.

It is worth noting that, at least in my opinion, the best defenses of the SEC would likely have troube defending the spreads of the Big 12 also; Alabama probably wouldn’t blow it out their a$$ like we did the other night, but then they did have serious struggles of their own stopping Georgia Southern’s triple option that day. Truth be told, Mike just didn’t see this kind of offensive power when he was here. If he is rehired I have no doubt he will be able to fire up the troops, not to mention bring some fresh inspiration to a lot of downtrodden Sooner fans. Who knows….maybe such nostalgic inspiration alone might help us reclaim some of that Sooner Magic.

"Gentlemen we must all hang together, or assuredly we will all hang separately."
Benjamin Franklin

by leatherneck1061 on Nov 23, 2011 10:08 AM CST reply actions  

I think what Mike Stoops will bring

is a good understanding of the way other top 20 teams not in the big 12 play. With that its only the little things they need to change game in game out.

by hufeisenokie on Nov 23, 2011 11:32 AM CST reply actions  

I dont buy this whole thing about the defense being too complicated. May be the coverage schemes being new the last three years or so were challenging to learn but it was learning something new that was the challenge. Way too many players on defense have played early in their careers, Hurst, Alexander, Wort, Nelson, and so on.

This defense, this year and last, has had too many really good games to say they cant handle the defensive scheme. The fact they have been blown up some games points to inconsistency. The MO on this team is kick them in the nuts early and they are off kilter the rest of the game—- Fiesta Bowl against West Virginia, A&M and Mizzou last year serve as case in points. Perhaps simplifying the D might help players just play instead of thinking all the time. But all stats aside, whose defense in this conference has had the same win-loss results as OU the last four or five years? Ill help you, none of them. And dont give me the Offense won those games…..defense was part of the equation too.

"Are you gonna do something or just stand there and bleed?"

by blaster1371 on Nov 23, 2011 7:44 PM CST reply actions  

Not saying you're wrong

I’m just sharing what I’ve heard/read from former players familiar with the system.

by Jordan Esco on Nov 24, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Furthermore

The pendulum is starting to swing away from the spread and offenses are looking for ways to exploit the smaller LBs and heavy reliance on DEs and DBs to provide leverage for the D. Texas has pretty much started in that direction. K-State has proven it can work, Big-Ten love affair with the spread seems to be rocked by Wisconsin’s success. PAC-12 has dabbled with it, mainy Oregon, but power teams like Stanford and pro-sets like USC have kept other defenses ’honest. The Big 12 (/) defenses will have to evolve to adjust to these changes outside their conference and as it creeps into their own.

"Are you gonna do something or just stand there and bleed?"

by blaster1371 on Nov 23, 2011 7:49 PM CST reply actions  

So what you're saying then is OU's already behind the curve?

Which if so, I’d strongly agree and only adds to the belief that an update across the board needs to be made w/ this entire staff.

by Jordan Esco on Nov 24, 2011 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

While I am not an expert on where all these other teams are defensively

or on what packages each are running, the thing that glares the most here is that OU gives up the middle….frequently, and often in huge chunks. Sure we got burned on a few outside screens to (not to mention harris getting burned a couple times for the deep pass), but the problem with coverage up the middle seems to be a recurring theme for the Sooners for years now. Would like to have some sort of assurance that coaches are addressing what, in my opinion, is almost certainly a schematic weakness. But then….ain’t holding my breath on that one.

"Gentlemen we must all hang together, or assuredly we will all hang separately."
Benjamin Franklin

by leatherneck1061 on Nov 24, 2011 11:42 PM CST up reply actions  

This stupid Baylor game was like watching the A&M game under MIKE stoops

Where we made Reggie McNeal look like a heisman winner.

by OU JJ on Nov 24, 2011 4:48 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

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