OU vs. Baylor - A historically bad defensive recap
And by historically bad I mean the OU defense, not my recap (though I'm sure there are plenty here who would disagree). Oklahoma has been playing football since 1895 and in those now 117 seasons never has a defense played worse, at least from a yards allowed perspective, in their school's history from a defensive standpoint. I don't think I need to tell you that's not the kind of history you want to be making. What's even more disturbing is that the record breakingly bad performance from last night wasn't a 117 year old record they broke, it was actually only a month old because they had been historically bad just a few short weeks ago against Texas Tech. In fact, this defense all year has given up some of the worst yards against totals in this program's illustrious history. All under the direction of a man who has clearly overstayed his welcome in the opinion of this OU fan.
You can blame Brent Venables as I'm about to do and many others here and elsewhere have countless times other than just today. However as has been said not quite as many times, the direction comes down from the head man and as such Bob Stoops has to shoulder his fair share of the blame. Venables is running the system he and Stoops put in place, so the blame is theirs to share. Bob has never fired a coach in his 13 years at OU, but the time has come for that to change. I say that because I do not believe Venables can remain employed while the changes necessary for this program to take place can happen. If Stoops can make the substantial and drastic changes to this defensive scheme with Venables still on staff then I'm all for it, I'm just not of the opinion that it can actually go down like that. But this shouldn't be entirely about calling for Venables head. That has been done here several times already and surely more to come, so we'll try to move on and discuss the actual game.
Eerily similar to the Tech game, 38 points should have been enough for this team to win. And were it not for yet another terrible performance by this OU defense it likely would have been. This defense has played the better part of one game against FSU, three quarters against Texas, one half against K-State, and a couple quarters against A&M. Aside from those glimpses, this defense has been borderline terrible. And for a team that has aspirations of a national championship or a program the caliber of OU, that is flat out unacceptable. In my uneducated can't possibly know anything because I'm just a stupid fan opinion, it's almost 100% a scheme issue. It's not like OU doesn't have elite level athletes, that is not the problem. The problem is Stoops and Venables have been running the exact same system for 13 years and have failed to adapt to the changes they now face in opposing offenses.
Their refusal to never, and I mean NEVER, play three or four cornerbacks against four and five wide sets has burned them more times than I could possibly count. This incredibly idiotic scheme constantly matches up linebackers and safeties one-on-one with WRs that they have no realistic chance of successfully covering. And yet it happens time and time and time again. It happened countless times last night and they paid for it dearly every time. This is a defense that has two of the best CBs in the entire country and yet the scheme they continue to employ is so easily exploitable that they are routinely not covering the other team's best receiving options. I can't possibly be the only one who sees how epically stupid that is right?!?
If nothing else proves it, this alone and it's mind numbingly repeated occurrences is proof enough that Venables has proven he is no longer the man to run this defense. It's a reactionary defense that is dictated by what the offense is going to do against it rather than how it actually should be in it (the defense) dictating what it will allow the defense to do. It is literally the exact opposite of how a defense should work, which defies the English language for stupidity. There may be no better example of this than Venables repeated employment of his stupid three man defensive line. Doing this gives you almost no pass rush, you're rushing three vs. five it's just basic freaking math, and thus totally allows the offense to dictate what they do. If you want to be a dominant defense, which I assume is what they or any coach would want, don't you want to dictate to the offense what you'll allow them to do? I mean sure they're going to beat you from time to time, no defense is perfect obviously, but at least you're doing things on your own terms. Not theirs and you just trying to react/adjust to what they do. This defense was getting pressure early, hell they were landing haymakers on RGIII, then Baylor makes an adjustment and OU's ability to get pressure rapidly disappears. From there on out the defense was stunningly ineffective and while the secondary, or more specifically the safeties minus Colvin, was terrible the front four did them no favors by allowing Griffin all day to throw.
I'll be honest with you, I'm torn on this whole Javon Harris thing. I know the consensus seems to be that he should never be allowed on the field again for this defense. Last night certainly wasn't his first stunningly glaring issue in coverage, but do you just write him off because of it? It's an interesting question not only because of his own future playing time, but more importantly in my opinion because of who this coaching staff seem to give multiple chances to vs. who gets just one before being relegated to the bench. Gabe Lynn got one (two if you count Mizzou though) and has yet to see the field again. Brandon Wiliams got one before being benched and completely wasting a year of eligibility. So what has Harris done to get his 5th, 6th, or 7th chance? I mean even after all his issues, Stoops/Venables/the entire defense ripping him a new one on the sideline, he was still back out there for almost the entire second half. Whether it's Stoops or Venables or Willie Martinez, their refusal to pull a guy who was clearly struggling hasn't been the direct result of their two losses but it's sure played one hell of a huge role in them both. That said, whatever level of responsibility you want to place on it it's amplified ten fold on the coaches inability to recognize it and adjust before it kills you for the umpteenth time.
The Stoops timeout will probably be argued about for decades to come. Last night after the game I heard it referred to has his worst coaching decision in his 13 years here and one of the worst coaching decisions in CFB history. I can't really argue against either, but what struck me most about that last drive wasn't the time out. it was the inexcusable decision not to spy RGIII. After Stoops called that time out, he scrambled twice for 22 yards and eight yards respectively, no spy. Then on the touchdown throw, again he scrambled for what felt like forever, again with no spy, until he found a WR matched up against a back up safety (great call Brent!!!) essentially wide open in the end zone. So on a drive where the game's outcome is clearly held in the balance, against a QB we've failed to get any kind of pressure one for the last three quarters, our genius DC chooses to rely on an ineffective pass rush to get pressure on a QB who is clearly in the zone. There is no other way to describe it, it's an indefensible decision and what makes it even more disgusting is it isn't the first time it's happened. Not even close actually.
This defense needs wholesale changes. No one can argue that any longer. If Bob and Brent are in denial and cannot recognize this and do what's necessary, then it's time for a change. Call it or me or fans like me whatever you like, but if you can't see that then you're just lying to yourself as are Stoops and Venables apparently. You simply can't have this much talent and then produce arguably the worst defense in your entire tenure and not think drastic changes have to be made. It may be a harsh truth for Bob to come to grips with, but it's the truth none the less and even he can't deny it any longer after last night.
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Time to reinvent the offense and defense
Can’t keep giving teams opportunities to score…..that’s the problem with the timeout, you gave Baylor another chance and you were hoping to get one when in overtime you were assured another chance no matter what they did. If you played a wide open style offenses with Alabama/LSU’s defenses, they would give up more points too but they choose to play a ball control offense to limit their defense’s exposure. This allows their defenses to play at their highest level for shorter periods of time. We need to move closer to Alabama/LSU and further from Texas Tech/Hawaii. How many championships have the last two played for?
Ripdawg
interesting concept,
the D has been a weak for the most part even when they do show up. Ball control is one way to help them out.
The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.
I just read something that about made me puke
For the sheer truth behind it and how disturbing a thought it actually is.
is Brent Venables Bob’s Greg Davis? Me thinks he is.
2011 for #12 - You will be missed
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans
Uh. Yeah. But he does what bob wants.
by OU JJ on Nov 20, 2011 1:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
OSU
Maybe it’ll take osu hanging half a hundred on us before they change anything. Of course, if we manage 51, no one will even care. And how much can be changed in 2 weeks anyway? Maybe we need to get blasted on national tv, blowing a conference championship, to get the necessary changes made.
On another note, if I see Javon Harris chasing another wr 10 yards behind him, I’m going to break something!
by chuckb on Nov 20, 2011 1:04 PM CST via mobile reply actions
buy some insurance because it is going to happen
The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.
LB vs WR
There is no reason for this to happen. Yes, the LB’s are smaller and quicker then a lot of the other teams around, but they still can’t handle a wr 1 on 1. Hopefully someone over there in Norman is reading the posts today and will go out and make changes in the off season. The next 2 weeks could be really ugly for the OU nation. The D has allowed way to many points and way to much yardage. They say it gets worse before it gets better, well it is worse, it is time for a change now.
by ThomasDavis2015 on Nov 20, 2011 1:10 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
preaching to the choir my man!
2011 for #12 - You will be missed
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans
I have a feeling that if the staff reads any of this it is taken with a grain of salt
The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.
Mobile rec
And will officially rec this whenn I get to the ole desktop.
by SCKSChief on Nov 20, 2011 1:27 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Venable needs to go... NOW
This defense has gotten worse every year. It can actually be measured, starting with the Boise State debacle. The scheme that Venebles has been running since Stoops little brother left doesn’t work, hasn’t worked and will not work. OU is ALWAYS burned by deep passes, mobile qb’s and special team returns. Changes are the only thing that is consistently missing on the defensive side of the ball. The teams change, the players are the highest caliber you can get, they change every year, the compition has changed every year… but the Stoops?Veneble defense still the same… and the results have gotten worse and will continue to get worse.
No more sharks
This defense has no right to call themselves Sharks. Next weeks game against Iowas State Mr Travis Lewis better have that haircut of the shark out of his head because they have no right to call themselves that anymore. How Is Stoops calling a timout at the end and not try to win it in overtime. We could have one the game in overtime if the time out was not called.
Every time we lose it's because our defense can't stop the easiest things.
Running up the gut or throwing over the middle of the field is the 2 easiest things to defend. We can’t stop either when we need to. I like Venables…but I don’t at the same time. Equal blame has got to be on Stoops too.
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There are times to be aggressive
and times to be conservative. I love gutsy calls. BUT, there are times to be conservative, like when 2 of the Top 5 teams lose and you are number 5. That 2 point conversion crap was just ridiculous. I wanted to kiss Adam Shead when he jumped offsides to force us to kick. The timeout was inexcusable. We had all of the momentum going into overtime our offense was rolling.
The failure was not only on defense, though. Landry had three terribly thrown balls in the game that changed the outcome. 1. Was that interception. Just throw the damn thing away. 2. Was the pass into quadruple coverage on the goal line. 3. Was the overthrowing of Jaz on fourth down. Also, why did we not utilize Brandon Williams and Roy Finch more? They both ran well IMO. The last kickoff made me want to puke. We really need an ST coordinator.
Let’s bring in Mike Stoops to be a co-DC with Venables. I think Brent can recruit and I love his fiery energy, and that’s the only reason why he stays.
right answer!
this was not all on the Defense, at least 50% of the problem is not being able to keep the other teams offense off the field AKA OU offense.
We have picked this game and the TEch game to pieces along with Mizzou, Kansas and aTm. Fact is Bad Landry and Happy Feet Landry have made way more appearances than Good Landry all season. He has had plenty of blockers and has been sacked only 3 or 4 times this season and he is still as nervous as a cat at a chair rocking contest.
I am all for Brandon Williams, Finch… meh, but Finch did have some good plays just nothing of strength.
The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.
Williams looked really good
when he was in there. I think at that point Heupel was just grasping at straws, looking for anything that might work, but he looked great. He needs to be used more, particularly in the OSU game b/c we’ve got to be able to keep their offense off the field. They’ll hang half a hundred on us if we don’t.
Do you think its time to demonstrate to the powers that be exactly how we feel.
What if we have a boycott of the Iowa state TV broadcast. Listen to the radio broadcast, you can get an internet feed of the sooner network if you don’t live in the sate.
Just to let everyone know we are upset.
Maybe we have a poll on this?
that will prove nothing to the PTB
What we need is someone to offer Bob a ridiculous price for his Camelot House. Maybe he will go and take Veneables with him.
That was my butt talking I really don’t want either leaving. I want them to wake The eff up. Change,modify and get rid of what is not working. Move Venebales to ST coach because everyone in CFB knows we need one. Then make the slot open for someone. I am not sold on Mike though. His teams weren’t that good.
The one thing being a lot older has going for it, most of us older have seen more CFB than most younger people have seen web pages.
It might not be intentional
Like in the form of a “boycott”, but I can guarantee you the crowd this coming Saturday will be horrible. Guaranteed.
2011 for #12 - You will be missed
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans
Some defensive stats:
Ranked 62nd in total defense with 385.8 yds/gm.
Tied for 11th worst in FBS for allowing plays over 40 yards (16).
"Coach Gundy, why was Oklahoma able to march right down the field against you?" --Erin Andrews
by dishingoutdimes on Nov 20, 2011 7:42 PM CST reply actions
The first stat
can be a little misleading b/c, as we get leads, teams have to pass against us, which leads to them gaining more yards than if they run. Also, we play a lot of wide open passing teams in the Big XII.
The second stat speaks volumes. That’s ridiculous. Javon Harris has to be at least partly involved in probably a dozen of them also.
I can think of a dozen with Harris easily
by OU JJ on Nov 20, 2011 8:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Stats for losers segment - Stoops vs Venables
Category Ven Stoops
DefRank 30.67 12.83
StrSched 13.83 23
AvgPerPlay 4.74 4.38
TDs 33.17 20.83
PPG 20.25 15.97
Ydspgm 322.39 289.66
TO Margin 0.56 0.64
Wins 10.33 10.83
Losses 3.17 2
Venables led defensive units are worse statistically, but have played consistently stronger teams. In the six years of his being the DC, OU has faced the toughest schedule twice and the third-toughest once. All in all, it looks like a wash. Venables does suffer somewhat from the QB problems in 2005 and 2009 obviously – 2005 was Stoops’ best coaching job – all four losses were to teams that finished the season ranked in the top 25.
If you include 2011 stats, the averages for Venables of course go up and it starts to look worse. The strength of schedule this year has us ranked 4th. Still there is a chance that we win out and we finish 12-2 again and the increase in the averages does not impact the W-L averages that much.
Took these from NCAA pages. Took 1999-2004 for Stoops and 2005-2010 for Venables.
(Standard disclaimers apply – YMMV – I’m not a statistician or play one on TV)

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