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It's time for OU to give Texas the proverbial middle finger

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That was about the most civil way I could come up with to describe my feelings toward our rival this morning and still respect CC's no cursing policy.  Believe me, I could think of a number of different ways to more appropriately describe my feelings but rules are rules and I will respect them. 

I can assure you this will not be as thorough or eloquent as Redhawk's story from earlier in the week, so fair warning.  This is 100% from a die hard OU fan who is flat out sick and tired of watching Texas run roughshod over my Sooners (and the rest of the conference for that matter).  I'm tired of watching UT do this (see video) to every team in the conference.

And more than anything, I'm beyond disgusted that Joe C., President Boren, Bob Stoops, and whoever else is in a position to do something about it, just continues to let it happen.  I mean when Castiglione came out this summer and basically said "We'll do whatever Texas does" I wanted to puke.  You could argue, and he has, that was not what he was saying but in the immortal words of George Costanza "It's not a lie if you believe it" and sorry Joe but I have a hard time buying that you actually believe it.  The fact of the matter is you gave up any and all leverage we might have had when you admitted publicly that you were hitching OU to the UT wagon no matter what.  Now they have done what you and we all knew they would do and yet here we sit having done nothing about it?!?

Star-divide

I came across an excellent article this morning from Sean Pendergast of the Houston Press addressing this UT/ESPiN love affair and he made several points I'd like to address here and open up for discussion with Sooner Nation.  This first question is a no-brainer and not really the point of this story, so we'll address it but there is more to the point than may just be on the surface.

1. Does this partnership further erode ESPN's journalistic credibility?

Seriously?  Does ESPiN have any credibility left to erode?  The easy answer is no, but the more important answer and a point we'll get much more in depth with in a minute is how does this new deal affect their coverage of all things Texas?  Anyone with a brain is aware that ESPiN has their "favorites" (can you say S-E-C) and those select teams/programs get biased preferential treatment with respect to their air time.  Perhaps even more obvious than their "perceived" bias in coverage is their insistence to make news rather than simply report news.  ESPiN, shamelessly, tries to create the story and wields their power like an incredibly insecure celebrity who throws a temper tantrum reminiscent of a three year old child. 

That's all well known, but the aspect of this that is much more disturbing is that now ESPiN has a direct $300 million financial incentive to favor the success of Texas football athletics.  If anyone tries to convince you otherwise, they are either a blatant UT homer or lying to themselves.  Does this mean Herbie spends an extra thirty seconds talking about UT as opposed to some other team?  Probably.  Does this mean more Mack Brown interviews during the middle of games (likely OU games)?  Um, yeah I'm sure it does.  Does all this make a difference in the grand scheme of things?  I'm not sure how you could think it wouldn't. 

3. There's high school sports coverage as part of this also? Uh oh. 

Originally I didn't think this was nearly as big a deal as others were making it out to be, but having had some more time to think about it I've flip flopped.  I hate pretty much everything about the NCAA, but I'd be 100% behind them doing something to instantly making this "against the rules."  Mack Brown is a slimy and dirty as they get, especially when it comes to recruiting, so to think he won't take advantage of this is a massive underestimation on my part.  Not sure what I was thinking on that one.

There is no doubt he'll sell potential recruits on having their high school games in the spotlight on the UT network.  You really think that won't impress a high school kid?  Let's say there is a kid who wasn't forced pressured convinced into committing on the spot during his official UT visit.  He's trying to decide between UT and another school or two, so Mack Brown comes waltzing in and says "Son, how would you like UT to feature your next five games on UTTV?  Does that sound like something you might be interested in?"  Now you ask yourself, is this something you can see Mack Brown doing?  Um, hell yes.

Where I still maintain a portion of my original dismissal is that it's not like Texas has ever had trouble recruiting.  As a rabid OU fan, I hate to admit it but it's just a fact that UT gets a majority, if not all, of the recruits they want (at least in-state anyway).  So it's not like that won't continue to still happen, where I see this making a bigger impact is recruiting in secondary sports.  The ability of a family who does not live anywhere near Austin to have the benefit of being able to watch their son or daughter on UTTV will be a significant advantage in recruiting for Texas.

So where is all of this leading you might be asking yourself?  The main point of this rant is one that appears to be lost on the powers that be at OU.  WE DON'T NEED TEXAS!!!! 

I'm not entirely sure why Joe C, President Boren, and anyone else with the power/clout at OU fail miserably to realize this?!?  Look, I'm as big a fan of the tradition between OU and TX as anyone out there.  But I'm not willing, nor to I think those in charge should be, to put that above all else.  This deal was no surprise, but that does not change the fact that UT basically spit in the faces of OU and everyone in Crimson and Cream (I get that they did the same to every other team in this conference, but right now I don't really care about those other teams).  UT cares about one thing and one thing only, $$$$$.  They don't care about the tradition of the RRSO.  They don't care that every other team in this conference hates their guts.  So why in the hell do we care so much about staying attached to them?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

The perception was/is that every other team, OU included to my disgust, was Texas' bitch and by allowing them to do this we've essentially just confirmed it.  You couple this with Joe C's comments last summer and honestly, I'm more than a little disappointed in our university leadership.  I say screw Texas!  Why the hell do we need to sit around here and wait from some scraps to fall from their table?  OU is at worse a top five football school and would be a monumental addition to any other conference.  Why is OU apparently happy to play second fiddle to UT?  It just baffles me.  This tv deal convinced me that OU needs to tell Texas to piss off and take whoever needs to come along (if anyone) to our conference of choice.  If it's the SEC then fine, if it's the PAC whatever then fine, just do something rather than just waiting to be forced into making a decision.

It would suck to lose the RRSO and all that comes with the game in Dallas every year, but at some point you've just got to ask if it's worth losing your dignity over.  Again, I don't understand the respect we continue to show Texas when it is never and has never been reciprocated.  Let them go play in their piles of money, we'll go win games somewhere else.  The University of Texas should not be making decisions for the University of Oklahoma. 

So let it be known to the powers that be, Sooner Nation doesn't give a bleep about staying connected with Texas!  We are willing to sacrifice the tradition if need be because we don't appreciate being pissed on and told that it's raining.  Whoever can help get this message through to Castiglione and Boren, the sooner the better!  Take A&M to the SEC.  If we have to buy Okie State's way in to, that's fine just hit up T.Boone.  The point is do whatever you have to do, but don't sit back and take this crap from Texas any longer.  We'll trust you to make the right decision, but know that being subservient to Texas is always, always, always, the wrong choice.  Now go get this done!

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As a UT grad and fan, I appreciate where you are coming from and don’t really disagree with any of it from your perspective. But at the end of the day, I think it’s hard to blame Texas for doing what it’s done, and I would put the blame, as you mentioned, squarely on OU’s administration (and that of other schools) for simply playing follow the leader. Any school would do what’s Texas is doing and go after the money—there’s no reason not to do so. The other conferences prohibit individual schools from creating their own networks, so again it goes back to the Big 12 having different rules.

My biggest problem with it all is not that we’re creating our own network, but rather that Texas will turn into the Evil Empire (as mentioned in other posts here), and everyone will hate Texas (i.e., Lakers, Yankees, Notre Dame, etc.). We all understand why OU, A&M fans, etc. have always hated us (and the feeling is mutual), but it has gotten to the point where there is nation-wide rooting against Texas, which is too bad.

The thought of a network devoted to one school and funded by ESPN is very slimy and raises tons of questions, as you describe, and any honest fan would agree. But if someone throws $300M your way, I don’t think any school these days would say no.

by hornfan13 on Jan 21, 2011 12:29 PM CST reply actions  

Haha no, I said from your perspective I understand. Obviously, I think y’all go too far on Mack and our admin, but we do the same for Stoops, and that’s what makes the rivalry the best in college football. I agree with most of the questions raised and issues presented about the new network.

by hornfan13 on Jan 21, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

And? I don’t understand your point. OU, USC, Notre Dame, Florida, etc., etc., would all take that if offered.

by hornfan13 on Jan 21, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

no he was basicly saying

“Everyone is a whore…we just all have different values”

which is actually an old philosophical question.

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 21, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 21, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I would put the blame, as you mentioned, squarely on OU’s administration

That is in fact exactly what I’m doing, or at least intended to do. I don’t “blame” Texas necessarily, I blame OU for letting it happen while doing nothing about it. I blame OU for publicly admitting that we bow down to Texas. This is so much more about OU than it is Texas, at least in my opinion. The administration owes it to us as fans, supporters, and donors to move on. This conference affiliation and association with Texas is no longer in our best interest and ultimately that is what those in charge are responsible for controlling.

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 21, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

agree... the complaint is about perception

we DONT have to follow texass, we dont have to go where they lead, people like to think that the tradition comes from texass, but numbers dont lie. How many conference titles there Mack? How many national titles? How many Heismans?

by OU JJ on Jan 21, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

As a Texas grad, I would love to agree with you that the OU admin bowed down to the mighty Texas. :-) But I don’t see it that way at all.

The move last summer was more of two powers banding together to get what they ultimately wanted- their own networks and the ability to control our futures. By standing together, Tech and OU Jr. followed our lead and we both kept hte conference from folding. If we had gone to the PAC 10, we would never have gotten the lucrative network deal. Staying in the Big 12-2 served both our needs.

What we have here is a failure to execute.

by dimecoverage on Jan 23, 2011 8:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I think its time to leave the conference now...

Texas is still considering the possibility of going Independent. I say we switch conferences now before Texas makes that decision for us.

by RGiskard on Jan 21, 2011 12:57 PM CST reply actions  

I agree.

Maybe it should be the Big 12-3, with UT being #3. Kick their butts out.

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

+100000

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 21, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

OU and ATM to sec

One day with the cussing band lifted would be awesome

by AllenOU on Jan 21, 2011 1:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

The only problem with that plan

Is we reportedly are stuck w/ OSU and the SEC doesn’t want anything to do w/ them.

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 21, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

JTE, for your condideration.

In your heading, “proverbial middle finger” is very close to the edge of obscenity.
I have used the term “digit disdain” to good effect over the years. It makes people have to think.
For example, when I left Colorado headed back to Texas, I got to Pueblo and saw the Rockies in my rear view mirror. I rolled the window down, extended my left arm and gave a gesture of digit disdain, vowing to never return to that God forsaken state, ever again.

As for the post, I truly appreciate the topic and the passion, but you might want to read what you posted now that you are hopefully more calm and make a few edits, for clarity purposes.

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 1:49 PM CST reply actions  

Thanks for the reco EasTex!

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 21, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Reco?

Not sure what that is, but it rhymes with RICO and maybe we could get the Feds after the whorns for RICO statute violations.

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Recomendation, sorry by bad w/ the short hand

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 21, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

The only thing I'd add

Is something referring to OU vs. TX being the greatest rivalry in CFB if not sports. tOSU and UM fans can suck it, that can’t hold a candle to OU/TX.

I’m sure and admitting as much up front, that it wasn’t the easiest read or best thing I’ve ever written but that wasn’t really the point. I think the gist of what I was trying to say comes through just fine.

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 21, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I wasn't impugning your post in anyway.

I just know from experience that some times a quick edit can help clarify a phrase or sentence, that’s all.

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

No worries. I'm sure you were right.

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 21, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think any rivalry matches the RRSO.

I think the onus should be on UT if it continues or not, they are the rogue actors in this scenario.

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Not so fast my friend...

Lets not forget the OU/Nebraska game. I know we pretty much gave that up when we created the BIG 12, but my fondest memories are watching that game over thanksgiving weekend. Now we have never hated Nebraska, at least not as much as we hate Texas. And I think I can safely say most Sooner fans respect Nebraska.

I know I’m one of the old fogey’s that want this game re-instated every year as a non-conference game. And as I earlier said in this thread that I believe OU should leave the Big 12 before Texas makes that decision to go independent, I believe the RRSO should continue as a non-conference game as well.

by RGiskard on Jan 21, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I could never forget the OU/NU rivalry.

One of my favorites growing up, but it is not the same rivalry as the RRSO. I met some fellas from Tennessee that came to Dallas for the weekend because they had to see for themselves what the rivalry was like, after reading about it and watching it on tv for many years. Of course I gave them a heads-up on some players too watch(cough…Hammer…cough).
I miss the annual games and the Rodgers punt return is burned into my gray matter.
But it never quite approached the same intensity for one reason, Nebraska and their fans are just plain good folks, they aren’t anything like the whorns or their fans. And with the whorns it isn’t confined to their football fans, either.
The way those folks down there act, you would think you would smell Faberge when you walked by an outhouse.
I would like to see both rivalries continue, even if non-conference, but if the whorns go indy or force the breakup of the conference, scattering the teams to other conferences, it may not be possible because of schedule demands for conference games.
I hate having this discussion. Heck, I hated it when the SWC went away and merged with the Big 8, but they did and now here we are.
I feel if a conference is going to allow a member to go rogue, they better have the marbles to put a stop to it or cast the offender out.

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 5:46 PM CST up reply actions  

we always say "the international sign of peace"

from Top Gun…… but no matter how you put it, even there “top” recruit is giving texass the bird….

by OU JJ on Jan 21, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait...what?

Their latest golden boy savior is waffling?

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

  1. 2 (i believe) OT in the nation from Arizona. We could not get Grimes out of Auburn, so he decommited and went with AU. Helluva miss in an area of need, but life goes on.

by NeTexHorn on Jan 21, 2011 8:46 PM CST up reply actions  

JTE

I’ve written a counter point to this article. I’ll let this one stay up..let folks vent, and then point out, this is all FAR easier said than done.

Let me know when you want me to put it up. (currently saved as a draft, in my Dashboard if you can see that)

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 21, 2011 2:25 PM CST reply actions  

and this is a great fan reaction type post

it’s got great information and a starting point for a discussion. Good discussions are good ways to learn.

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 21, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks

I wanted to wait, as I think this article and tread is cathartic and needed.

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 22, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree in that I think it serves its purpose

But I’m sure your approach is much more intelligent and appropriate

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 22, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

more intelligent….I hope so.

More appropriate? Not really. This post is the typical fan on the street reaction. It allows for cathartic release of fear and anger. It’s also the starting point for rational discussion. All of that is important, and appropriate.

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 22, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem is

To some degree we and the administration will always be approaching from a different perspective; in some ways we might as well be speaking 2 different languages. I can gripe (as I have before) about basically the same thing JTE has done here, and I always have to remind myself that the almighty $ reigns supreme in these decisions. While we all want the program to be successful and thus be able to keep hiring the best personnel, maintain the best facilities, etc., there is clearly a line most fans don’t want to cross that the powers-that-be have already proven they are quite willing to cross…..regardless of what we think.

My question is this (and I am looking for different perspectives here): Is the idea of going to the SEC (without Texas) really such a bad thing (and I don’t want to hear about how much harder conference play would be)? We all have to know by now that the state of this conferences is tenuous at best. Texas will take their blocks and relocate at the drop of a hat if it benefits them financially; Mizzou has already shown they will fly the coop for the Big 10 at the first opportunity; A&M appears to have grown a pair and wants to cut their ties to big brother – if for no other reason than to spit in his eye – so many of them would obviously like to go to the SEC; even OK State appeared to flirt with the idea of going to the PAC 10 even if we didn’t. There is a movement afoot among several universities to separate from the tyrant (Texas) and stake a claim somewhere else just like Nebraska did…..that is except in the state of Oklahoma. From a fan’s perspective it appears we will slavishly follow Texas’ lead – even off of a cliff – regardless of what Boren might say. I am not naive….yes they are all whores, but they are showing they really don’t care how much they piss off their fans so long as they can make a few bucks in the process. I for one wouldn’t mind the SEC at all (despite the fact their arrogant fans are intolerable), and it’s kind of late to talk about saving historic rivalries after we proved we clearly didn’t give a rat’s a$$ about the Big Red Rivalry, isn’t it?

by leatherneck1061 on Jan 21, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't have a problem with going to the SEC.

I don’t have a problem with their fan base, either.
I don’t like the way OU is being treated by the conference in this situation.
Either the conference takes action against UT for their greedy actions that subvert the conferences integrity, or OU should seek a more stable conference partner. Acquiescing to weak conference leadership or the pomposity of the whorns isn’t about feelings, it is an outrage that cannot be tolerated, as they will continue to push if not pushed back.
Everyone always talks about the resources UT has, they can afford a high paid “CEO” for their football program and fancy facilities. If that is indeed true, then why is this money so important to them? I say it isn’t the money, it is the principle, that they believe they can bully others and make them subservient to their will. They must be shown that is not the case, preferably by showing them the door.

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Is it a bad thing to join the SEC?

no…if they would take us, AND Okla St. It would be fine, shoot it would be great! It would be more money for OU too, if CBS and ESPN would pay extra for us.

BUT…the SEC didn’t want OSU, and both CBS and ESPN recently signed TV deals with the SEC, and neither seemed to excited to renegotiate their TV deals this summer.

SO….what you are really asking is like this, “Is it really wrong for me to date Bre Olsen” Heck, no….but does she want to date you? A team can’t go where it’s not invited…

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 21, 2011 8:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Well we were invited

at one time. Why we have to look out for our little orange-headed step brother is beyond me. Are you saying the legislature will threaten to get involved like with A&M?

by leatherneck1061 on Jan 21, 2011 8:47 PM CST up reply actions  

not like A&M…different structures. For either OU or OSU to leave, each has to get approval from their Regents…and both OU and OSU are in separate educational groups.

But the head and final say for both is the Governor of the state of Oklahoma. So…that becomes a political issue.

As far as the SEC invite…..that was never 100%, mostly because SEC’s TV didn’t promise more money if the SEC expanded.

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 21, 2011 9:19 PM CST up reply actions  

This is where there was evidently a divergance of views on what the reality of the situation actually was; every voice I heard on the subject of SEC expansion and television markets (including several from the SEC) regarded the acquisition of more money as essentially axiomatic.

As for the political sensibilities involved, I will simply plead ignorance – this is one part of college football education I never burdened myself with: Indeed this is the 1st time I heard it was the Governor’s call….not very reassuring….but then not exactly surprising either.

by leatherneck1061 on Jan 21, 2011 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

The SEC tv contracts

approval was NOT automatic. They had/have a clause that either party could get out if there were significant changes to either party. Was adding 2 teams big enough to trigger this? CBS said maybe…..ESPN (who was backing the Big 12 sticking together) said no.

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 21, 2011 10:12 PM CST up reply actions  

You should be able to split them up and play in non-conference

The governor who lets Oklahoma football wither and die to save the lost-cause that is Oklahoma State as a consistently competitive school will not last long. It may be a damned if you do, damned if you don’t deal, but the right compromise is to split them up and have them play every year on thanksgiving weekend as a non-conference game. OSU alumi wont like it, but it’ll be enough to keep them relevant without killing Oklahoma. And letting Oklahoma’s football team is a significant financial boon to the state.

by BigFatScott on Jan 21, 2011 9:57 PM CST up reply actions  

There is no way, the Governor would sign off, on JUST OU leaving and leaving OSU behind to be hurt by OU leaving. The Governor has to looking out for both schools

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 21, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Oklahoma can’t really do the Pac-10 without the rest of the BigXII south going too, and that probably doesn’t happen without Texas as a part of the deal. OU has already proven they can get the invite to the SEC without Texas, but OSU isn’t getting one. If the league disintegrates and OU’s options are either join the SEC without OSU or stay with OSU in some conference of the plains that won’t be able to garner a BCS bid or a TV contract worth anything because there will be no large TV markets in it’s footprint, then what do you do?

I think you have to let OU go and just lock up an annual non-conference game. If OU can get into a super-conference and OSU can’t, then having OU languish just means everyone loses and both schools become irrelevant. Everyone is better off if OU goes but locks up an annual game with OSU. It makes certain that OSU will never be equal to OU, but that is already a virtual certainty.

I mean how is leaving OU to wither and die to try and bolster OSU looking out for both schools? That’s the scenario I’m picturing.

by BigFatScott on Jan 21, 2011 10:55 PM CST up reply actions  

why are you picturing

the Big 12 losing it’s BCS AQ?

That won’t be happening anytime soon, with or with out UT in the Big 12. OU can stay in the Big 12 with OSU.

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 21, 2011 10:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Without Texas, there’s no A&M, and without those 2 the league will not command enough TV sets to keep it’s AQ status. Even if it could, A&M to SEC means they’ll have to even out their numbers at at least 14. At that point it’s a real short time line before you’re at 16-team leagues and the BigXII will not be one of them. If you try to keep OU in the BigXII with OSU after Texas and A&M are gone, you’re condemning it to irrelevance. Politician’s are dumb enough to do it, but I’m calling it now.

Nebraska secured a seat in the BigTen because the writing on the wall said “16” and the only place they fit was the BigTen. Oklahoma could have done the Pac-10 this summer, and maybe they still can if the cards fall right, but the more likely scenario is an independent Texas, A&M to the SEC with Oklahoma getting an invite. If you’re not sitting at one of the tables with 16 chairs at it then sooner or later you’re screwed. Nebraska figured it out. Oklahoma’s regents will figure it out, and staying in the BigXII at that point is a death sentence.

by BigFatScott on Jan 21, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions  

A couple of these worries are not real concerns

1) A&M is not going to the SEC alone. A&M would love to join the SEC, the SEC would like a foothold in the state of Texas. However, the SEC wouldn’t invite just A&M.

BUT….let’s say A&M leaves for the SEC, and I dunno…Clemson joins them. UT, some how gets to go Independent. Would the Big 12 die? NO

Would it be as sexy? No….but it would not die. They would turn west, add BYU, add TCU (which would NOW have value to the Big 12), and probably Houston. The league and OU would lose value, and thus money…but it would still go on existing.

2) the 16 team super-conference died this summer. The TV networks wanted the extra conferences, as it means more programing for everyone. More program for everyone means less bidding wars for limited programing rights. (pac 16 deal was killed by ESPN/ABC promising money for the Big12..they could have promised the Pac 16 money to make it happen)
3) IF 16 team super conferences happen, OU is a national brand and will be invited to the party somewhere.
4) and this is the big one…the BCS formula isn’t based on league money….it’s based on past on field performance, which the Big 12 rocks in.
5) the President of the BCS….and an OU alumni !!!!!!!!

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 21, 2011 11:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Disney saved the BigXII because it saved them money. With the TXPN deal done for the next 20 years, they can make money by blowing the BIGXII up.

I guess I would disagree in that I think 16-team conferences will happen. There will be at least 3 of them (Pac-10, BigTen, and SEC) and they will command the lion’s share of the money. Texas and Notre Dame could stay independent or they could be swallowed up.

I certainly agree that when that happens OU is definitely getting an invitation , but OSU might not, and that’s the rub. If OU’s invitation doesn’t include seating for 2, then I think they have to go anyway and agree to see OSU every year in non-conference play.

by BigFatScott on Jan 21, 2011 11:56 PM CST up reply actions  

the 16 team super conference to me is dead. IF a 4 conference 16 team set up happened, you end up with 4 blocks of rights. With ABC/ESPN, CBS/CBS College, Fox/Fox Sports, NBC/Comcast all wanting programing, the power swings to the conferences. Supply just got WAY smaller, and that pushes prices up.

Disney/ABC/ESPN, saw that this summer, and ponied up to kill the Pac16 deal and keep the Big 12 alive. CBS hasn’t shown interest in paying more for the SEC to go to 16, and Fox…the one that stands to gain the most, didn’t show any interest do over pay either.

Also, the University Presidents, when push came to shove saw value in regional alliances with similar universities. They also didn’t want to unzip current conferences, which means, Washington St, and Vanderbilt and Northwestern would be in this new D-1, and Missouri, Kansas, and potentially like you point out, Oklahoma would be left out. And that didn’t work for the TV people at all.

However, the Big 10 is still looking at 16. And while they may not be the leader on the gridiron, they certainly are the leaders of the college football business side. If they go to 16, then I think that will be the signal for the rest to go as well. I’d expect though we get 5 conferences of 16 and not 4. The Pac-10, SEC, Big 10, ACC…and the Big 12

Why? Too many large alumni based schools left out wit only 64 teams and especially in the mid-west

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 22, 2011 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

That sounds plausible, but it doesn’t sound any better. If those are the 5 16-team leagues, then the BigXII is easily the worst and it has basically no significant tie to large TV and recruiting markets. Oklahoma will do well so long as it’s on relatively equal footing, but being king of that conference would not be much unlike BYU was in the Mountain West. It would put Oklahoma at a considerable financial and recruiting disadvantage and over time it would wither and die.

by BigFatScott on Jan 22, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

the big 12

would maintain a huge hold in the state of texas, because of this:

no significant tie to large TV and recruiting markets

That’s what killed the Big 8 and made it not viable. If UT left, and A&M left too, the Big 12 replaces them with Houston, and TCU. BYU is a national name, Houston and TCU become viable, then as ties to the state of Texas. 2nd rate ties compared to UT and A&M..yes, but still ties.

And if UT leaves….I think A&M stays (unless the money offered from the SEC is too big to pass up). They just want out of the shadow of UT.

Worst of the super-conferences? yes maybe, but the ACC sucks. That is also like saying “dumbest kid at MIT”.

Plus, any new super-conference alignment, will come with an auto birth into the new playoff system which will come along with the super-conference set up.

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 22, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

money

BYU was only making about $1.5 million a year from the MWC, and their crappy TV deals. As an independent, they got $4 million for 4 games with ESPN plus they got to keep their broadcast rights BYU-TV. BYU would make about $15 million in the Big 12.

BYU also wants programing rights for 2ndary sports for them to put on BYU-TV. Something that they didn’t have with the MWC….

Sound familiar?

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)

by Redhawk on Jan 22, 2011 9:27 AM CST up reply actions  

No one has as high an opinion of UT as UT does.

Allowing them to impose their self-adoration on the rest of the conference is only going to encourage them to act impudently in the future.
They are taking the action an independent school would take, like ND did with one of the networks.
Here is the big BUT, they are part of a conference, an affiliation of universities for the benefit of all member schools. When any school goes to a bowl game, they are required to share their bowl proceeds with said member schools. UT benefited from the conference affiliation from eight conference members this year, while their product contributed nothing.
UT should be required to share the proceeds of their deal with the other conference members or face sanctions from the conference for acting independently and against the best interests of the conference.
If UT persists in acting independently of the conference, then their membership should be terminated.
While some may be convinced being in a conference with them is an advantage, I disagree.
The deference the whorns are given is without justification.

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 2:30 PM CST reply actions  

It’s not a conference. It’s a confederation of 3 independents and 7 conveniently located annual opponents.

Besides, Texas has to share it’s bowl revenue too. If Texas keeps its non-conference rights, then everyone keeps them. It’s just that only Oklahoma, A&M, and Texas have non-conference rights worth anything.

by BigFatScott on Jan 21, 2011 10:58 PM CST up reply actions  

It is a conference, with an admin lacking stones.

Acting in their own interest is fine, if they aren’t affiliated with a conference.

by EasTex on Jan 21, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

It’s not a conference. Calling it a conference doesn’t make it a conference. It’s 3 independents and 7 conveniently located annual opponents. Everything else is window dressing.

by BigFatScott on Jan 21, 2011 11:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Now you see why Colorado and Nebraska bailed out.
I think all of this will be a mute point in a few years.
The attempt to have a “super conference” this past season will not end with this past season. I have not doubt it will come around again and maybe OU should go for it this time.
Much as I hate Texass I can’t blame them for wanting the $$$$,after all college football is a business….

by Beatles65 on Jan 21, 2011 3:07 PM CST reply actions  

In my humble opinion...

OU should do everything they can to break away from Texas. If we can play them out of conf, then fine. If not, that won’t hurt my feelings. OU does not need Texas as a conf member. We made it for decades in different conferences and survived. If the RRSO has to go away, so be it! We don’t NEED to play them. I honestly can’t say that I’d miss it. Frankly, I always thought more of the Nebraska rivalry and have learned to live without that. Losing Texas is not that big a deal. Replace them with LSU, Arkansas, Bama, etc.

How much damage is OU playing follow the leader doing to our long-term reputation and how will that start to be reflected in our recruiting? The thing that frustrates me the most is OU is a greater traditional power than Texas. Why does the administration act as if the opposite’s true? If the chance to go to the SEC with A&M comes again, take it.

by Sean Post on Jan 21, 2011 3:45 PM CST reply actions  

+1

"I don't like Texas. I don't like the city of Austin. And I don't like the color orange. It reminds me of puke." The Boz

Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
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by Jordan Esco on Jan 22, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions  

If you're worried about your dignity, then why did you write this?

Just be cool.

I honestly don’t see Texas spitting in everyone’s faces with this. They’re just doing what they’ve always done, which is just sitting around being bigger than everyone else. That doesn’t mean their spitting in everyone’s face. I’ll give you that Texans generally, and Texas fans in particular, seem to be wholly incapable of grasping the concept that bigger doesn’t necessarily equal better, and they tend to go around being obnoxiously sure of their own superiority because there’s no doubt that Texas, as an institution, is bigger than anyone else. But it’s that inability to grasp the subtle nuance between bigger and better that gives rise to one of life’s greatest joys, namely, seeing that strained look on a Texas fan’s face when she’s trying to figure out why Texas isn’t always winning when it’s patently obvious that they’re always bigger. We get to watch them unwittingly embarrass themselves as they explain to us how every loss is a matter of some extenuating circumstance (read: excuse, or more appropriately Texcuse), because obviously Texas was the bigger team, so obviously they should have won. We get to watch them talk about how great they are even as they claim conference titles with an asterisk, as they beg people to recognize how much bigger they are and vote them into the Rose Bowl games they otherwise haven’t earned, as they beg and plead with former players to accept awards they didn’t win because “it would be good for the program,” as they insist that Oklahoma gets an unfair advantage by always sitting around the tunnel at Cotton Bowl, as they insist that little drapes must be put up along the tunnel because of all horrible things that have happened to their players walking through that tunnel over the course of the last 80 drape-free years. We get to watch them do all of these unseemly and embarrassing things, and we get the extra joy of watching them do it with a straight face. They do all of those things while honestly thinking “damnit we’re better than everyone.” Even now we got to watch their coaching staff completely implode, and all they can say is man Mack is making great hires. [Sigh] It brings joy to my heart just to type this.

Sure, the TV network is the latest and greatest statement to the world that “We’re Texas, and we’re bigger than you.” But that’s always been true and it always will be true. It’s a large warm-weather state with deep-water ports, an international border, lots of natural resources, and tons and tons of people. It should be really big. And sure Texas doesn’t care about anyone else, but Oklahoma didn’t stay in the BigXII because it cares about Texas. It cares about Oklahoma, and the fact of the matter is that Oklahoma is better off in the BigXII. If Texas gets the rights to its non-conference games, then Oklahoma and A&M are going to get the rights to their non-conference games too, and guess what. That means Oklahoma will make more money and exert more control than it would in any other conference. Those 3 schools are bringing more to the table than they are getting back. It’s the other 7 schools that will suffer what they must. Oklahoma isn’t going to make as much as Texas is on it’s non-conference rights, but it’s still going to make a lot more than it would if it had to share its non-conference revenue. And Oklahoma gets to reap all of these rewards while Texas does all of the pushing people around.

If Oklahoma’s administrators are doing anything wrong, it’s trying to create their own network. Oklahoma doesn’t need one. No one will want to watch it and 10 years from now, no one will being paying for cable TV. Having the rights to the non-conference games would be nice, but Oklahoma doesn’t need a TV network. If they want to do anything they should work on distributing video over the internet in a way that gives them complete control. They won’t need a distribution partner and all of the ad revenue can go straight to the school with much less overhead than building a TV network.

Look, I understand that Nebraska would love for everyone to think they left the BigXII because they weren’t going to let Texas push them around, but the truth is Texas was never pushing them around. I don’t know why anyone would care where the conference offices were. Oklahoma wanted the Championship Game to be in Dallas too. I don’t know what Oklahoma’s stance on partial-qualifiers was, but it wasn’t horrible to limit them. OU-Nebraska wasn’t an every year cross divisional game because Oklahoma didn’t want it, and they didn’t want it because It wouldn’t work. Oklahoma would have had to play Texas and Nebraska every single year, while Texas and Nebraska would only play each other half the time. It would’ve put Oklahoma at a huge disadvantage in winning the conference in 2 out of every 4 years.

Nebraska would love for everyone to believe they left because they weren’t going to take it any more, and maybe they even believe that themselves. I know the fans think that, but damnit guys a lot of their fans are crazy. You can think OSU sucks and their fans are stupid all you want, but you have to acknowledge that sharing the state with another school forces you to have a sense of perspective about how good you really are. In Oklahoma the papers write about both schools and OSU doesn’t particularly like how its always measured against Oklahoma, but in Nebraska all the papers write about is Nebraska, and at times they lose all sense of perspective.

The truth is that Nebraska and Colorado left because they saw the writing on the wall. Colorado wouldn’t even deny that they saw it. The South was flirting with the Pac-10, and half the South schools had invitations to two of the 3 conferences that are assured of existence after the move to 16-team conferences (and really, if OU, Texas, and A&M had all gone to the SEC, then OSU was probably getting the 16th invite). The reality is that those 3 schools can do whatever they want and the coming change in the college football landscape is not a threat to them. But that wasn’t true for Nebraska. Nebraska isn’t valuable enough to be worth it to the SEC or the Pac-10 to have some satellite member in the middle of the country. When things fall apart and the 16-team conferences form, Nebraska needs to be in the BigTen or they risk being stuck in the Mountain West. Their administrators were smart enough not to let that happen. When the BigXII asked Nebraska to pledge its loyalty, they couldn’t afford to do it. If they stuck with the BigXII and the BigTen went to 16 teams without them, there was no one saving a seat for them whenever the South finally goes to a 16-team league. They needed to get their seat at one of the Big-Boys’ tables now, and they smartly did it.

Oklahoma and A&M responded in completely different ways, and Oklahoma is the one that kept its cool. A&M threw a fit. They didn’t want to go the Pac-10 because Texas told them they should go there. A&M’s fans displayed an even bigger inferiority-complex than you guys are with this post. Between the two moves, the Pac-10 was clearly the better move, but A&M wouldn’t hear it. But the best move was staying put. If you stay put, you’re going to get to eat a lot more of what you kill because the weaker schools aren’t going to be in a position to demand anything from you. They’ll take what you give them and like it because otherwise they’re all going to be stuck in the Mountain West.

Oklahoma doesn’t need to do anything. They need to just be cool and let the money roll in while they wait for the world to turn. When it does, they’ll make their move. But for now it’s better for Oklahoma to get the same deal Texas gets on a smaller scale than anything that any other conference can give them. That’s definitely the case as long as it looks like Oklahoma is going to win the conference 3 out of every 4 years. I mean come on guys. Oklahoma is getting a pretty sweet deal in the new BigXII, and Texas is the jerk everyone loves to hate. (The team that looks screwed is Texas Tech. They had an invitation and now it looks like Utah is drinking their milkshake.)

I could write even more words than I’ve written here about the things that Texas does that are objectively repulsive, but having the TV network isn’t really one of them. The TV network just means they’re bigger than everyone else, and we already knew that. This is nothing new. This changes nothing. Maybe for lacrosse or baseball, but for football this changes nothing.

So, please. Just be cool. If you plead with the administration to do anything, plead with them to not start a TV network, because Oklahoma doesn’t need it. When things went down over the summer, Oklahoma was the only guy in the room that acted like he didn’t need to prove his dick was the biggest, and I think that’s a good thing. When Oklahoma does what Texas does, it’s not because they care about Texas. It’s because it’s better for Oklahoma. And it’s better for Oklahoma for the same reasons it’s better for Texas. Oklahoma just isn’t as big as Texas is and consequentially the dollars aren’t as big either. But surely we all knew that Texas was bigger.

So, just be cool, and watch Texas try to figure out why it doesn’t win all the time even though they’re so flippin’ big that Disney just paid $300m for the privilege of setting up shop Austin. Seriously, how awesome would it have been to watch a TXPN broadcast after a 73-14 beat down? Or after Texas lost 3 home games in a month to UCLA, Iowa State and Baylor? This just means that their swim team is going to be awesome, and they’ll have their own special channel to embarrass themselves on 24-7. So, please, just be cool, and don’t go writing anymore drivel. It’s undignified.

by BigFatScott on Jan 21, 2011 9:16 PM CST reply actions  

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