Is OU about to win another National Championship?
by Redhawk on May 21, 2010 11:44 PM CDT
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PrintWhile we are still waiting for the NCAA to rule on USC probation and penalties for Reggie Bush and his agent, and receiving benefits, there was some interesting news that would greatly affect the Oklahoma Sooners.
Here's the thing: USC, might have to forfeit the Orange Bowl, and "vacate" their win. It would be the NCAA ruling. From the Orange County Register:
A recent USA Today report points out a not so well-known fact: The BCS instituted a policy in 2007 that calls for BCS appearances and titles to be vacated should the NCAA determine a program violated major rules.
From the USA Today: Its policy stipulates: "When the NCAA or a conference makes a finding of violations … and imposes a sanction of forfeiture or vacation of contests in which an ineligible student-athlete participated, we will presume that vacation of participation in a BCS bowl game is warranted." That's if the player in question participated in that BCS game or in victories that led to the bowl berth.
The BCS' Presidential Oversight Committee, made up of university CEOs and currently chaired by Nebraska's Harvey Perlman, would make the call.
I'd also point out that current BCS Executive Director is Bill Hancock, and OU grad and if from Hobort, OK.
The final BCS standings for that year had OU 2nd behind USC, despite OU quiting. It was OU's only lose of the season as you might recall. The AP Poll had Auburn number 2 and OU 3rd. Again many said Auburn should have been in the national championship game, and they also had a perfect 13-0 record.
If USC HAS to vacate their National Title....then OU being 2nd in the BCS standings...will win the BCS 2004 Football National Championship!!!!! I would assume that Auburn will be the AP National Champions, thus giving us a split National Champion for 2004
Personally, I'll take it. No one remembers that the 1974 championship was tainted because of probation, and the UPI/Coaches Poll had another #1. All any fan knows...Is OU was a National Champ in 1974. 2004 will be no different.
Heck if it was Texas, they would be planning the parade all ready.
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While it seems likely USC will vacate their wins and Bush his Heisman,
I don’t think the BCS would award the 2004 BCS National Championship to OU.
First of all Auburn actually finished second in the final BCS Standings, albeit after the bowl season.
Second, unlike a forfeit, if wins are vacated they are not transferred to the opponent. 2004 would have no champion.
Third, I doubt the Athletic Department would accept the 2004 championship.
I agree
Stoops is more of a “you got to earn it” type of guy. I’d guess that Stoops would likely turn it down, saying his team didn’t win the championship.
by KratosWasASooner on May 22, 2010 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I sincerely hope they wouldn't accept it
That sounds more like something texass or ok. state would do.
"We call him The Hammer." - Bob Stoops on Ronnell Lewis
I totally disagree
I’d take it.
But….I if, USC is stripped of the BCS National Championship…some one will have to be the National Champion. And….OU finished 2nd in the BCS. We’d be the next one in line.
Should we say “No thanks” and let the #3 team celebrate a National Championship?
There won't be a national champion.
USC is in danger of vacating their wins. It is not a forfeit. OU does not gain a victory.
But I agree with you, if the BCS decided to award a championship there is no legitimate way you could give it to Auburn. if 2004 Auburn played USC who’s to say they wouldn’t lose 56-12? Just because they didn’t have the opportunity to get destroyed by an pro team doesn’t mean they were the best team that season.
by SoonerDutch on May 22, 2010 12:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes
If USC vacates their win it still counts as a loss for OU.
by SoonerDutch on May 22, 2010 6:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
aw
but if USC forfeits the game, it would count as a win for OU.
Still….OU was 2nd in the BCS even WITH the loss to USC. We’d be next in line if the BCS awards the NC to another team.
For some reason, I find that hilarious!
The final BCS standings came out December 4th.
Roughly a month before the championship game.
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/2004_archive_bcs.html
If they released standings after the loss I would be shocked to see OU ahead of Auburn.
by SoonerDutch on May 23, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
You're playing with hypotheticals.
Auburn sneaks in ahead of OU, promptly destroyed by SC. OU beats a decent Virginia Tech team by a field goal.
by SoonerDutch on May 23, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
actually
Auburn finished 2nd in the AP poll. They still finished 3rd in the BCS. In fact O.U. was closer to USC in the final BCS standings than Aurburn was to OU. USC had .9770 O.U. had a .9681 with Auburn .9331 ranking which put O.U. closer to USC than Auburn was to O.U. and 2nd place.
OU was so far ahead of USC going into the BCS championship game, that many math crunchers thought OU could still be #1, even with a loss. (which goes to show you how messed up the formula/scoring is/was)
The key word in the rule, is “PRESUMES” to vacate the BCS National Championship. It would still have to be voted on by the President’s committee.
The AP championship is another matter. They have a history of ignoring teams on probation. Would they do so on a forfeiture?
oops
OU was #2 going into the game, not #1. Here’s a PDF of the final standings…go to page 8 it also has the AP and USAtoday/ESPN final poll standings
No
Check the actual final poll for 2004, an undefeated Auburn came in second over a one loss Oklahoma. In the final poll before the bowl season OU was 2, but after the bowl season Auburn was 2.
by SoonerDutch on May 22, 2010 12:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
right
Auburn was #2 in the AP poll…and the USAtoday/ESPN coaches poll. But OU was #2 in the BCS rankings.
Would the AP give Auburn the NC when they have ignored probations in the past to award National Champions (like OU in 74). Would the UPI pull it’s NC from USC as they have a rule that teams on probation are not eligible for #1…but is that also retro-active?
I could see:
OU #1 in the BCS
USC #1 in the AP
and Auburn #1 in the USAtoday/ESPN
Thanks, but No Thanks!
I was at the 04 Orange Bowl. The game pretty much ruined an otherwise fun filled vacation to Miami. I look forward to the 8th National Championship; but not this way.
I agree....
I was at that game too. I left at halftime because the rout was on.
We don’t deserve a national championship this way. If the game was closer and Reggie Bush was the only one who went nuts, then I might feel differently, but the fact is they kicked our ass without Bush having a major impact.
The bigger question to me
Why has it taken so long for the NCAA to get to this point? My guess is that the OU basketball investigation will move at a much faster clip and we will see ourselves on major probation yet again shortly – not five years from now.
As an aside, I don’t want the Orange Bowl trophy, the MNC, or anything else from that season. There is no way any of those can restore my dignity. I still suffer flashbacks from that depantsing – it makes it no less humiliating even if USC was using players who were being represented / paid / whatever.
Easy answer
Is we’re not one of the “chosen one” programs. They make exceptions and excuses for programs like U$C and pending the actual punishment they had down this will very likely be another example of just that fact.
"We call him The Hammer." - Bob Stoops on Ronnell Lewis
OU didn't win the national championship
The NCAA is not going to award ou the national championship no matter what. It’s kind of like the issue they had with Memphis and Derrick Rose. Memphis had to vacate their wins (and although they didnt win the NCAA title in basketball that year) its not like all the teams that Memphis beat in the tournament get another chance.
And even in some alternate universe where the NCAA goes to ou and says “Hey USC had a player that cheated so you are now crowned national champs for 04” I would be SHOCKED to see ou accept it.
ou would immediately become the laughing stock of college football for accepting the trophy when they got crushed in that game.
Says the 2008 Big 12 Champion Texas Longhorns...
by SoonerDutch on May 23, 2010 8:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree Sooner Dutch
I HATED when that story came out. I was so dissapointed in my alma matter. Maybe if they put something up in the locker room that read “Oklahoma Sooners: 2008 Big 12 Champs*” then I could more understand.
But what our coaching staff did was awful. Total embarassment.
Sooners won the 2008 Championship...
Because of a vote. Not by beating Texas.
Texas beat both Mizzou and OU, and had the same record as OU…
Well actually it was because of a tiebreaking system that all Big 12 schools agreed to
but if you want to call that a “vote”, let’s call it a vote. Just in case you forgot, Texas Tech had the same record as Texas and OU, and beat Texas.
by SoonerDutch on May 24, 2010 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't forget about their pansy schedule as well
"We call him The Hammer." - Bob Stoops on Ronnell Lewis
lol, we lost that Tech game at the end of one of the most grueling string of games… what was it, 4 top 12s at the time? oklahoma, missouri, ok st, texas tech.
FAU, arkansas, and utep were our OOC opponents. Arkansas should have been a good game when it was scheduled.
by Displaced Longhorn on May 26, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
look at the scores
yeah because in hindsight that is such an accomplishment? You beat Mizzou easily, struggled at home with OSU & led against Texas tech for a total of what 52 seconds? All teams that OU beat by 30 points minimum…. ?? “GRUELING”????
Are you being serious?? Dont even try to degend that crap dude…. let me know when you remember the fact YOU didnt play in the title game! I did nt see Texass complaining when they got beat by OU, but because of tie breaker rules got to go to the Big 12 championship in 2001. Of course you have forgotten about that, as you try to erase all memories of Chrissy Simms I suppose…..
The tiebreaker rules?
If I remember correctly, Texas lost to OU and that was their 1 conference loss during the regular season. OU dropped games to A&M and OSU. They had 2 conference losses. That is not a tie breaker.
Nice try though!
winning a national championship losing 56-12….. would that be funnier than Alabama’s 14 claimed NCs?
by Displaced Longhorn on May 24, 2010 9:11 AM CDT reply actions
YES
but apparently I’m in the minority here, and others don’t see the coolness of the absurdity of winning after losing. If it happened, I look at it that OU is SO great we win NC’s even when we lose!
At least with 2004 the world has a record of what happened. It would be in many ways as legit as some of Alabama’s NC’s. I mean just because the “Tuscaloosa Weekly Tattler and Farm Report” voted ‘bama #1 in 19 ought 4 doesn’t seem t that as a legit NC as OU winning the NC for 2004.
Also for the record for many years, the NC and final AP poll was given BEFORE the bowl games. The Bowl games were considered “exhibitions”.
ah, I took the # from a post above asking if Auburn would lose by that score. I knew the score was in that ballpark and just thought he was referencing the exact #s.
by Displaced Longhorn on May 25, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
They just should leave it blank
as much as Young deserves it…
by SoonerDutch on May 24, 2010 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
& for the record….. It would be nice to have U$C seasons forfeited. Not only to semi-erase the sting of the OB, but also for all the hype & love they got. Not just the Bush situation, but you had Leinart & Jarrett living in a multiple thousand $ a month apt. What was the whole Williams (WR) situation? I mean incident after incident. BTW I know OU had its recent share, but we admitted & moved on. Bomar’s $ was less than a paycheck for me & then you have got Reggie Bush talking hundred;s of thousands of dollars. I know U$C is private school but come on, people do you really think all those agents & celebs were hanging out for nothing???!?!?
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