Reasons for Recruiting Problems in Texas?
by HoustonSooner on Jan 22, 2010 10:45 AM CST
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Darius White's recent declaration of his intent to play for the ShortWhorns has made me really concerned about OU's recent failures to recruit in Texas against Mackie, Muschamp and their staff. Darius indicated that Mackie's staff made him feel more like family than OU's staff did and that he wanted to live in TX after his football playing days and that if he played for the Whorns they would "take care of him." (I'm still perplexed about what he means by taking care of.)
I'm writing this because I'm hoping to reverse jinx the Jackson Jeffcoat decision (I heard on WWLS today that he will make his decision on Sunday on a Dallas TV station.) Hopefully, Jackie Shipp doesn't drop the ball and lands Jeffcoat. I want to get feedback and try to figure out the reasons for OU's recent recruiting problems in TX. It seems as if OU is actually doing better in California this recruiting class than in TX. Who was the last 5-star recruit out of TX that chose OU over UT-Austin? Jamarcus McFarland? Remember that excellent NY Times article which detailed Mackie's dirty tricks campaign to recruit McFarland and how that turned off Jamarcus and his family? (I remember also how the BON vipers' den tried to discredit the reporter Thayer Evans and discredit Evans' sources.)
Of course UT-Austin feels entitled to every player in the state of TX, and if they had their way, they would offer 800 scholarships. But, alas, they can't get everyone.
What does OU need to do to recruit more effectively in TX? Have we lost our recruiting advantage in DFW? Why does it seem we never really do well recruiting in Houston? Or is this just me reading too much into the loss of Darius White and is OU doing as well in TX as they always have?
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Or is this just me reading too much into the loss of Darius White and is OU doing as well in TX as they always have?
That.
OU is always going to lose out to a vast majority of the kids in Texas. Always has, always will. OU will also continue to steal a few guys that the Horns want. They have a huge advantage on 95% of the kids from the state and they know how to use it. This year’s class is a fantastic one and it shows that we can and do recruit nationally much better than Texas (they don’t do it because they don’t have to) and it helps to find the right guys for OU.
Changed my SBN user name from WoodrowWilson.
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You may be right
But I still think there is cause for concern. UT-Austin does have a huge recruiting advantage, but I suspect they supplement that natural advantage with a bit of negative recruting. Not just against us but also A&M as well. Living in SE Texas, I don’t see OU even being in the running for the blue chip high school players down here. Because of location, it always seemed like we were on even footing with UT in the DFW area, but it seems as if we are falling a little behind.
And even outside of TX, what about Cam Newton? How did Chizik and his staff convince Cam that Auburn was better suited for his talents than OU?
by HoustonSooner on Jan 22, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Because we have a QB who is going to come in and start next year.
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Are you talking about Blake Bell?
He looks impressive but so did Bomar coming out of Grand Prairie. I’d rather have a Heupel-type JUCO guy come in and start for two years (Sorry Landry…I just don’t have faith in you.) and have Bell apprentice under the experienced guy than to throw him right into the fire.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 22, 2010 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
No
Im talking about Landry Jones. Blake Bell has zero chance of playing next year without injuries.
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Pretty silly to not have faith in Landry after that season.
You seem to forget that Sam wasn’t so hot on the road his Freshman year either and he played on a MUCH better team.
Look at the average stats for each of their 4 Freshmen road starts:
Sam – 10.5/18 137.5 yards 1 TD 1 INT
Landry – 22/40 237 yards 1 TD 1.75 INT
Obviously I don’t think Landry is going to be as good as Sam, but no one knew how good Sam was going to be after his Freshmen year either…
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I hope Landry proves me wrong
I sincerely hope you’re right Jon, and optimistically if O-line improves (which it should…it can’t get worse than last year even with the loss of Trent Williams) and if the WR-TE core improves. (I want to see some more Jazz Reynolds and improvement out of Ratteree) If they improve, Landry should have a better year. But it’s going to take a lot to forget those bad interceptions, most notably the one against Texas. Spring ball should be devoted to improving his accuracy. That brings up another good question. Is Sam Bradford-esque accuracy innate or can it be taught?
I didn’t realize how bad Sam was on the road in 2007. You have a good point. Let’s hope and pray.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 22, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
You can teach it
But not to Sam’s level. Sam was INSANELY accurate
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The Ralphie Report - University of Colorado Athletics
aaron benson
carrington byndym
demarco cobbs
deaires cotton
greg daniels
mike davis
ashton dorsey
john harris
tevin jackson
adrian phillips
darius terrell
darius white
reggie wilson
connor wood
Texas commits that OU offered (14)
aaron franklin
torrea peterson
OU commits that Texas offered (2)
to think that OU has always been this unsuccessful head to head with Texas is foolish, OU used to have alot more success than this year. there’s been a definite shift from Texas losing alot of the top players to OU every year, to Texas retaining most of them. is this a growing trend that will continue forever? nope. but it’s definitely in Texas’ favor. the big hit to isn’t that OU gets bad classes if they don’t recruit Texas well (y’all obviously do just fine nationally), it’s that Texas just has an all around stronger class.
also, I always thought you were a CU fan? OU fan writing for CU? whats your story?
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 22, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Outside of the Stephen Good, RJ Washington class two years ago
OU hasnt gotten more than 1 out of the Texas top 10 (off the top of my head) since the Bomar, Peterson class.
I run co-own/run The Ralphie Report. I am an OU alum/fan first and foremost.
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Never thought I be saying this
But thank you Displaced Longhorn for making my point. It’s strange that we’re allies on this point. That is the evidence I was lacking. 14-2….WOW….My fear is that this is a trend and I’ve seen the shift. My question is why? And I don’t think the answer is as simple as..TX kids really, really want to stay in Texas and that UT has a natural recruiting advantage with TX kids. That wasn’t the case at one time and if true why aren’t they choosing other TX schools?
The other explanation would be that Austin is so much nicer and more enticing to 18-19 year old then Norman, College Station, or Waco is which may be true but still doesn’t explain this trend.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 22, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
But that number/percentage is really perception
This year, it might be a little more skewed to Texas, on the Texas kids that both are recruiting, but Texas USUALLY does better. Maybe not 14-2, but they do win more head to head recruitment battles for kids in Texas. Even during the 80’s when Texas was down and OU was still in the top 10 the split was only like 50-50. Note: but at that time A&M was poaching a lot from Texas’ wish list as well….I remember one year late 80’s or early 90’s it seemed that OU, UT, and aTm were in on every major recruit, and it broke out almost equal with OU being a little ahead.
Is this a “trend”? Is it something bad? Or just a short term anomaly? Well, I’m concerned if texas boosters are promising jobs after school (“being taken care of” ) for Texas recruits as that’s a major violation, but violations are nothing new in the recruiting wars at all. But for the most part, I’d say it’s just short term spike, going with Texas being up, and aTm being down and not taking their share from UT.
"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."
every school has an alumni foundation through which you can seek jobs and make contacts. helping someone find a job post-graduation is not a recruiting violation.
i think that comment is more about Texas being a family and everyone being welcomed back with open arms, whereas some schools that’s not the case.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 24, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
you do realise
that you are basically saying “Texas would NEVER do anything illegal” right? Which comes across to me as….“very holier-than-though” or just blindly wrong.
Saying “a degree from UT has a lot of weight, and you can have a good career, and have good alumni connections that will help you in life and your future career” is very legal. Saying, “Don’t worry about post college, as we will make sure you have a job waiting for you and/or your family members” is not.
It’s a fine line, and to think that it’s not stepped over just because you are UT, i think pretty silly on your part.
"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."
it’s an opinion about a comment, not an alleged fact on the history of Texas football
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 24, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
You haven't seen a shift. Look at this and tell me where you see the shift...
Year Total Recruits Texas * Texas **** Texas *
2002 24 0 7 2
2003 24 0 7 3
2004 18 2 2 4
2005 27 1 3 4
2006 27 0 6 4
2007 21 0 3 2
2008 21 3 6 2
2009 23 0 6 4
2010 29 0 5 11
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Don't understand your chart
If you’re talking about total recruits, then we are still taking players out of TX in sufficient quantity…but the point I’m trying to make is simply limited to players that both UT and OU offer scholarships to. In the head-to-head battle for recruits we’re getting creamed, and I’m baffled. Is it cyclical or are we witnessing a long-term trend? Like I said, if OU gets Jeffcoat and I reverse jinx this thing then maybe there’s nothing to be worried about.
However, it is legitimate to ask how we can improve our recruiting against UT. Maybe we can discuss that.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 22, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
My point is that Bob Stoops has consistently recruited Texas since he has been Head Coach. Every year we get somewhere between 2 and 4 guys that Texas wanted. Some years those recruits are Aaron Franklin and Torrea Peterson and some years those recruits are RJ Washington or Adrian Peterson.
OU won’t beat out Mack and Texas (or most likely Muschamp) for many more guys than that until they are a mid to bottom level Big 12 team and that won’t happen anytime soon.
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Texas 5 star
Texas 4 star
Texas 3 star
It got messed up after I typed it up for some reason
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comments ignore tabs, hence, everything gettnig truncated. and there’s no table functionality. so you’re kinda screwed trying it that way
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 25, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
You’re getting a greater % of your recruits over time from Texas (at least 3, 4, 5* recruits), but the % of the top recruits (4, 5* recruits) is trending slightly downward. It’s a bit clearer to see if you right click, copy image location, and paste that into your address bar. It’d be interesting to see what % of the 4* and 5* there are in Texas that you’re getting (what OU gets / What the state of Texas has). I think that would be more telling of the quality of recruits you’re getting.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 25, 2010 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
Fascinating graph
This is exactly the information I was seeking and I think proves my point that there is a downward trend. Thanks for the graph!
by HoustonSooner on Jan 25, 2010 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
I am a Texas fan
and I want some of you to take this into consideration. These kids are 17-19 years old and when they get to the age of really noticing footbal they are between the age of 6-9 yrs old. In the state of Texas the Longhorns are the living end. Now I am not taking away the great season that the OU Sooners have had but Texas at the same time has had great seasons as well. Could it just possibly be that when all the chips are on the table that maybe it was just being a fan of Texas that was the final positive in the decision making process. When you put that with being closer to home. Yes I know DFW is a draw there but these kids are still from Texas. Now think about this also. The economy in California is horrible and the cost of living is still more expensive in Cali than it is in Okla. Therefore there livning dollars can stretch further in Norman than it could in Cal.
Not so sure
I’m sure every 17-19 year old HS player has their own motivation for picking a school. Some may be concerned with how much playing time they’re going get so that their pro prospects will increase. Some may want to go to the place that will increase their social prospects (if you all catch my drift). And then again some may be mature enough to pick the best educational institution for what they want to do in life. It’s hard for fans to concede sometimes, but I just don’t think fandom really ends up the contributing factor for a young man’s school decision. And as hard as it for Texans to admit, I don’t think state pride is much of a factor as well. I would dispute that the Texas Longhorns are the living end in the state Texas merely the market leader…and I’m sure TCU, SMU, A&M, Tech among others would have something to say about that and would agree with me.
I think there’s definitely exceptions. Colt McCoy, I have no doubt grew up as a Longhorn fan and dreamed playing for them regardless of his pro or social prospects (admittedly, UT did not hurt him on both accounts). But, Colt is the exception rather than the rule.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 25, 2010 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
Dont take it
that being the overall reason why these kids choose a school. With that being said take this hypothetical situation. You are in a recruiting battle and with say OU and Texas. Both fine schools. Jackie Shipp takes you into his house and you all go play video games againest each other. Afterward your University escort (no sexual pune intended) takes you out and shows you the campus. You visit O’Connells and talk with the fans and students and they tell you all the great stuff about OU and you think WOW! Then you go to Austin and Will takes you to heck IDK play golf. Afterward Sam Acho takes you to 6th St and you visit all the things to do on 6th St and then you go sit courtside at a Tex basketball game. Again you think WOW! You go thru the pro’s and cons. OU has 2 sr’s at your position at 1 and 2 so they want you to redshirt. Now Texas comes in and says that you will come in and play immediately as a back-up but he is a JR. They both have a great program for what you want to go to school for and you live in Oak Cliff ( if you dont know that is about the same distance to both schools as far as travel) Now the first game you remember watching on TV is the ‘98 game and you remember Ricky Williams running for 139 yds that game and later take away the Heisman. From that moment on you have always been a Texas fan. Now its the night before signing day and you have all the pro’s and con’s on the table before you and it is tied. There are 3 things left. Where are all your friends telling you to go, what state are you from and what school have you been a fan of since you were 8. 95 times out a 100 they are going to pick the in state school. Now in Houston it maybe 40% aTm and 40% Texas and then its University of Houston, Rice and whatever else. Come out of the Houston area it is Texas the over-whelming majority then OU maybe a distant 2nd followed by aTm. Do not take human emotions out of the picture. They are what makes us who we are. What OU fans may need to worry about more in my opinion is that OU gets so very few of their players from the state of Okla. With that being said. How can OU not land a kid like DeMarco Cobbs. For schools like OU, Nebraska and whoever else you have to get the studs in your own state and get 4-5 from all the others. The fact that OU isnt getting him makes me wonder if its not just the state of Texas OU should be worried about.
you mean like
Gerald McCoy, Jermaine Gresham, and Sam Bradford? We lose one guy this year and you come out w/ a ridiculous statement like OU “gets so very few of their players from OK.” OU gets a vast majority of the top tier OK athletes on a yearly basis, but we all enjoy you taking one of the few exceptions and turning it into a “disturbing trend.”
This is by far one of the dumbest arguments I read on a regular basis. Texas high school football is infinitely larger than OK high school football so it only stands to reason that OU go into texass to recruit. I don’t think I’d be hurting anyone’s feelings by saying that the quality of high school football is considerably higher (for the most part) than in OK. The reason that OU comes into TX to recruit is no different than the reason texass never has to leave the state to do the same. It would be no different for OU fans to question Mack’s lack of ability to recruit anywhere outside the state of TX while Bob continues to excel landing national recruits. The difference being that OU fans are smart enough to realize it’s a stupid point to make so why bother trying to have a logical conversation with a whorn fan.
And
Oklahoma has had increasingly more top college recruits in just raw numbers, especially when you look at say 20 years ago. BUT, there just isn’t 25 of them each year in Oklahoma. So OU HAS to go out of state. As do most all schools not located in Florida, California or Texas.
There will always be some kid that wants to go out of state, and see the world a bit, regardless of where they are from, or who is recruiting them in-state.
"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."
Agree
OU needs to come into Texas to recruit. Texas has nearly 25 million souls, and Oklahoma doesn’t even have 4 million. So, of course, OU has to recruit in Texas to be competitive. Of course, UT-Austin, if they had it their way, would have their own TV network and be able to offer 800 scholarships to every 3 star recruit and above from Texas. Maybe if they join the Big Ten like so many BON denizens want to happen, their dream can be realized and they wouldn’t have to play OU every year. Besides, this rivalry and having it in the Cotton Bowl every year means a lot more to OU than UT. If UT had their way, the game would be played in Austin every year to make it more fair (according to the ShortWhorn definition of fair).
by HoustonSooner on Jan 26, 2010 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
This is probably the dumbest post I’ve ever read on an SBNation site that wasn’t written by beergut.
I stand by my statement
The RRS and that rivalry means a lot more to OU than UT-Austin and it always has. It’s only in the Big XII South era where the game basically decides the Big XII champion virtually every year that the game has added importance for the BO Nation.
You would only say it’s a dumb post if you didn’t understood the Whorns’ sense of entitlement, which means you’re either a troll Whorn or have never lived around Whorns. Even my friends who are clad in burnt orange can turn from nice and self-effacing to insufferably arrogant when it comes to their team. I can talk to them about everything but college football.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 29, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Hmm
Even my friends who are clad in burnt orange can turn from nice and self-effacing to insufferably arrogant when it comes to their team. I can talk to them about everything but college football.
You sure you’ve spent enough time with Sooner fans as well?
by TheElusiveShadow on Jan 29, 2010 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
I believe he was stating that the Sooner fan base can be
viewed the same way. Therefore, we have a Zing.
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Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
All fanbases can be arrogant at times
Although people who are fans of a Halloween Orange team in Stillwater may disagree with me, in general the Sooner fanbase (at least those who actually went to the school in Norman) is among the most friendly fanbases in college football. Here’s the big difference, UT has a lot more T-shirt fans and fans that jump on the bandwagon when they are successful. UT feels that it is entitled to football wins, and makes excuses when it does not win bowls, tiebreaks, Michael Crabtree, etc. Sooners because of our history and the economic hardtimes are a little more humble and a little more appreciative of what we have then our friends south of the Red River.
Does OU have our fans that we’re not proud of? Of course, the famed “testicle grabber” is one example. (By the way, he never went to school at OU.)
Sidenote: I don’t see many Sooner trolls going over to Body Odor Nation to comment on your boards. Funny. I wonder how friendly they would be if I trolled over there (not a chance..never going to do it.).
by HoustonSooner on Jan 30, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
That was a troll comment?
Lighten up a bit. As you said, all fanbases have people that are embarrassing. Your problem is that you’re trying to engage the lowest of Texas fans while stressing the most classy of OU fans. I simply made a joking comment to point out that your rant could apply to any fanbase, including Oklahoma’s. This “entitlement” business and the like sounds nothing more than bitterness, to be honest. It would be way too easy for me to list numerous, personal examples of immature and foul behavior from Sooner fans. And it would still be going a little far if I tried to generalize my personal experiences to cover them all.
Furthermore, BON is known as one of the more accommodating sites on SBN for other fans. We are quick to jump on stupid behavior, but that goes for our own fans as well. Whenever I hear the accusation that BON is not friendly to outsiders, it is inevitably people that are A) Obvious trolls B) Never participated seriously in the discussions there or C) Obnoxious. Whenever people come with serious, civil sports, talk, even if we disagree with them, they are welcomed.
by TheElusiveShadow on Jan 30, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
We're here to rant
I appreciate your comment because you sound like a logical person with whom one could have a rational, high-level discussion about college football.
I’m kind of a newbie to the SBN scene but have observed for quite some time various fan sites. We all have blindspots when it comes to our fanbases but I’m trying to be objective, so maybe I observed the wrong BON fanposts and comments on the wrong days. But what I’ve observed over at BON sometimes is too often a tendency to insult an entire state’s residents, history, cities, and educational institutions rather than to confine the insults to the football team, coaching staff, and fanbase. If I call names to any other group than these three, please feel free to call me out. For example, I went a little over the top calling you guys Body Odor Nation, and I apologize. But I’m keeping Whorn and ShortWhorn because I like those names.
Living as an Oklahoma ex-pat in Texas is tough sometimes, and it’s quite therapeutic to rant especially after the hardest season to live through of the Stoops era.
I’m quite passionate about my team as I’m sure you are and that’s what makes college football fun as long as we don’t resort to soccer hoolganism.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 30, 2010 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'm fine with the endearing nicknames
Comes with the territory. But so does making fun statements about Oklahoma :).
by TheElusiveShadow on Feb 1, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Another favorite
Of mine is the excuses texass fan makes on their lack of ability to recruit outside the state of TX. When they inevitably miss out on a kid from CA, LA, or AL they simply write it off to the fact that the kid was a “insert home state school” lean and wasn’t even really considering anyone else. So by that logic wouldn’t OU have a built in excuse on every TX kid they don’t wind up signing?
they do… cause the kid is from Texas…
and every OOS player we offer is a reach, we only offer 2 or 3 a year… OU offers 118…..
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 27, 2010 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
I'd love
To see some sort of proof as to this texas fan theory about OU offering ridiculous amounts of out of state kids. I realize (at least I think) you’re being sarcastic w/ the 118 number, but I’m not sure how this theory has come to be known as alleged fact in whorn nation? Does OU really offer such an extreme amount more than any other school?
I mean I guess if you include texas kids then maybe they offer more than the norm, but they also seem to find a lot of kids in the shadows that texas was ignoring and then finds out OU has offered and comes swooping in. I’m almost positive that’s what happened with D.J. Grant I believe, who while he has yet to see the field in austin is always a player I read texas fan crowing about “potential” wise.
This for sure isn't the allegation that I'm aware of:
Does OU really offer such an extreme amount [of schollies] more than any other school?
SEC schools often even accept way more commitments than they can possibly afford to. They count on some players not qualifying or others dropping out.
I think the thing that UT fans are talking about is that when you look at a large number of players on Rivals/Scout, including many of UT’s commits, you see that OU has offered them. This year, UT hasn’t had to do that much because they’ve gotten commits quickly from so many of their offers.
right
It’s not like UT getting top TX talent is something new, but that’s certainly not stopping them from acting like it. Much like they finally land an out of state kid and now they can get any kid they want anywhere in the country as well.
Ever since Mack arrived, UT has recruited a particular way and it’s certainly worked for them. They have most of their commits very early and then try and cherry pick just the guys they want during the remainder of the process. They’re supposed to get the best TX players and they usually do. UT “beats” OU in recruiting basically every year, so you’d think they’d act like they’ve been there before, you know since they have, instead of celebrating like it’s the first time they’ve ever done it before. Nope, that would be way too much to ask. Doing something you’re supposed to do and then going crazy because you just did it makes you look really intelligent.
I’d have to respectfully disagree, at least until Displaced Longhorn explains his post, that whorn fan doesn’t think Stoops just offers anyone and everyone. That’s what was implied in his post and that seems to be the general consensus among whorn nation. Then when he gets more commits than he can take he just drops recruits for the new ones or tells them there’s no schollie for them now, right whorns?
OU seems to have done pretty well under Stoops and his recruiting strategies. Jeffcoat would have been a great get, but it’s not like OU doesn’t still have a top five class. Plus we’ve got more coming back next year than texass and aren’t really depending on guys in this incoming class to contribute (short of maybe a couple o-linemen). The fact that whorn fan is depending on these freshmen to come in and play immediately is a good thing for us.
it wasn’t meant as a “well you just carpet bomb offers and see what sticks” even though that’s more or less what appears to be happening. and OU is not the only school that does it, Florida has 130 something offers out.
it’s easier to recruit nationally when you offer alot of national prospects, Texas targets a select few and if we miss on all of them, that’s that. if we get all of them, then great.
go to texas.rivals.com and search for commits/prospects, check the box that says “only players committed” and select the school. the 118 was OU’s total offers, the 2-3 were the players off the top of my head (cobbs, hicks, and i’m sure someone else).
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 30, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
point taken
You do it your way, we’ll do it ours and I’ll take my chances every day of the week much like you would as well I’m sure.
Then when he gets more commits than he can take he just drops recruits for the new ones or tells them there’s no schollie for them now, right whorns?
I don’t know of Stoops doing this, and wouldn’t allege that he has. Sometimes things like that happen when too many players are signed and there’s not enough attrition.
The other thing is that UT wasn’t in this position last year. I’m not talking about having a good recruiting class, just the way things panned out right before signing day. None of the late prospects signed with UT, this year so far all of them have committed to Texas. That’s an exciting difference for Texas fans.
last year we also had 3 5* players already, we weren’t too depressed.
and to the whole “dropping commits blah blah” portion, it’s easy enough to offer a kid and then not communicate with them anymore and they get the message you’re not all that interested.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 30, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
You mean like
Mack does when they don’t commit immediately or take official visits outside of Austin? Exceptions being for the five star kids of course.
Oh and much to your surprise I’m sure, I could go on and on about all the things Stoops allegedly does that UT fans somehow have unique inside information on all the time.
You are very misinformed.
He closes these kids very hard. Mack tells them that if they commit no more recruiting visits. He will pull a offer if you take a visit after you have committed.
Austin v. OKC/Norman
I followed you for a little while, but then you lost me. I’m sure Austin has fine golf courses, but I would put OU’s Jimmie Austin Golf Club against any golf club in the Hill Country. And you’re right 6th Street is fun, but having the opportunity to sit courtside at an NBA game is perhaps just as much fun if not more for many of these young men (I wish it wasn’t a NCAA recruiting violation to give these guys courtside seats). And I can attest the social talent in the female department is loaded in both places. Now, having 6-point beer in the grocery stores is a definite advantage for Austin (I forget these kids most of these kids are underaged, like that’s going to stop them…haha).
Now I believe you might be a Ricky Williams fan and you remember that Heisman and the 1998 game but others may remember Roy Williams and his play in the immortal 2001 game. Others may remember the exploits of Quentin Griffin or a little-known RB from Palestine named Adrian Peterson. But as I said, I don’t think fandom means as much to these players as their pro prospects do.
In the hypothethical you described, of course, any rational young football player would pick UT-Austin over OU. But you loaded that hypothetical with a bunch of facts tilted to your side. I rather think it’s a lot more even then most Longhorn fans concede.
The main difference that I can see is coaching personnel and their ability to coach the blue chippers to play in the NFL. Presumably, the players both UT-Austin and OU want are going to be NFL prospects. That’s really what I want to focus on. Is Mackie, Muschamp and his crew really better salesmen than Stoops,Shipp and Venables? I’m going to say they are better pitchmen.
And don’t worry about OU recruiting Oklahoma players. I think we’re just fine there.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 26, 2010 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
Again you are missing the point that these kids live on the south side of the river
when all those things take place. Do not take it as I am the typical fan either. I personally consider that play the best play in the history of the RRS. Believe me I dont worry about OU and their recruiting. I dont really give 2 cents about OU’s recruits. Besides Adrian Peterson and Jamal Brown what former OU is really worth a crap? Tommy Harris? BUST! All those corners and safeties have been BUSTS! Roy Williams? BIG BUST! Now Ill give you 7 players that truelly make any sort of difference on their team Peterson, Loadbolt, Lofton, Pool, Wilkerson, Brown and Clayton. 7 players and you really want to come out and say that their production of getting players in the NFL is great? There are 27 former OU fb players in the NFL. Out of those 7 make a difference. I take that back. Garrett Hartley just did kick a fg. Texas has 42 now I wont say how many of them I think make a difference on their team cuase you will just say Im leaning one way or the other just know that Texas’ Roy Williams is also a BIG BUST!
The NFL
LEMILES, historically OU players have underachieved in the pros as compared to UT, USC, Notre Dame, Miami, Florida State and some of the other elite programs in the nation. I’ll give you that. Which makes the Sooner accomplishments on the field since WWII all the more impressive. For example, there has never been an elite Sooner QB in the NFL. Lee Roy Selmon and Tommy McDonald are the only Sooners in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
But you are leaving off Kelly Gregg who is still making a difference in the Ravens D-Line, Corey Ivy who has been a Ravens DB and has been a consistent contributor for 9 seasons, Clint Ingram a mainstay with the Jags. In fact, on the defensive side of the ball, I will put Sooner players up against Longhorn players any day of the week. I think it’s really on the offensive side of the ball where Sooners have underachieved. For example, I’m baffled why Malcolm Kelly is not a star yet (maybe because Jason Campbell sucks).
by HoustonSooner on Jan 27, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
He Also Said Tommie Harris Was A Bust
And why he’s been no Fridge Perry he has been to three Pro Bowls. That’s not too shabby.
Come on guys
Man pro bowls? Come on, Roy Williams made several pro bowls and there isnt anybody out there that will truelly say he is worth a darn. Longhorns Roy made pro bowls with Det and we will all say he is a bust. Reputation and fact are 3 different things. Ill take Kelly over Tommy. No doubt. Now I will be honest Ricky Williams is a bust but I think we will all agree that is due to the bong. There has def been Longhorn busts. Now OU’s lack of QB success in the NFL is due to running the option up until 99 or whenever they quit running it. With that being said thou Keith Jackson was one of the greatest TE’s in NFL history. Billy Simms career was cut short due to injury. Now Tommy decent player but def not up to the hype. AD will be the greatest RB to ever play the game IF he learns to hold on to the ball. I give credit where credit is due. Heck we can go position to position if you want.
Really?
Now I will be honest Ricky Williams is a bust
He had a pretty good year this year and overall has been a good to great RB with ~8900 yards rushing in his 9 seasons in the NFL (include his 6 carry/15yd comeback season).
He wasn’t worth trading an entire draft for (who is?), but apart from that, he’s not a bust.
Ok I'm sorry,
this is the worst thing that has even been published on the internet.
by SoonerDutch on Jan 28, 2010 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
Longhorns didn't have to
discredit Evans’ sources
Evan’s sources (at least half of them) did that enough themselves.
McFarland admitted:
“Some things we knew were kind of mixed up because [the reporter] got a paper of mine,” McFarland said. “The paper I wrote for an English class ? it was spiced up a little bit for class. But a majority of it was correct… If I knew he was getting it, I would have known what was right and what wasn’t right.”
- Rivals
And the NYT even admitted they couldn’t be confident that the article was true:
Reporters and editors in three different parts of the paper did not take enough pains to verify information, The Times…published a sensational anecdote about a college football recruiting battle that the paper cannot be confident is true.
At the very least this can only be said if you read the article without any critical thinking:
“Remember that excellent NY Times article”
Coming back to the original question
the more I’ve thought about this, question, and the change in the percentage of recruits, picking UT, over OU, I keep coming back to one thought. I don’t think OU’s percentage, is down that much. But UT is taking more, but not so much from OU. It’s Texas a&m that I don’t think is taking their share of the recruits. When A&M was stronger the splits use to be closer to even, with UT having a lead in the head to head guys.
OU is still taking their share…..Texas A&M isn’t taking theirs, which is making UT’s % look more skewed.
Note: This is pure observational thoughts, and not based on any hard numbers.
"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."
if you want to go by that line of thinking (and it’s possible to do, nothing wrong with thinking that), then you would think OU would be getting more recruits that would have gone to A&M as well… and they are getting more recruits… more 3*s. i dunno, the data shows fewer % of quality Texas players, and a higher % of mediocre players over the last 7 years. .
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 27, 2010 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
But if the pitch to a recruit is
“Stay at home son, don’t go away to some distant foreign land like Oklahoma” Which is what most are putting out as the reason for UT having a lead in some of the recruiting battles, and if that IS a kids #1 issue, it wouldn’t affect OU’s percentage. They would be out either way. But aTm would have the same pitch, as UT, thus taking numbers/players more from UT than OU.
And really we are talking about the head to head battles which for the most part are 4* kids. The 3 or even 2’s that OU and UT are wanting are usually scouted, and some one likes more than their numbers for some odd reason, so not as many head to head battles, compared to those that EVERYONE loves.
"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."
Now we're getting somewhere
I agree with Redhawk on this. Blame A&M for not being competitive enough to snatch more players from UT-Austin. (Were they competitive in recruiting during the Slocum era?)
If A&M takes more players from UT, OU benefits ultimately because I don’t know how many players all three schools are going after.
This has been a great thread so far, this discussion has been illuminating.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 27, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
Yes very much so
and like UT their on field performance wasn’t matching up to their top 10 ranked recruiting classes. There were a few years, it seemed when I would read about some kid OU was in on, his other schools were almost always UT and A&M. now, I rarely see A&M listed.
"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."
You guys are thinking way too much.
I am a Sooner and will be for life, but Austin/UT beats Norman/OU in literally every single category. Its amazing that we are able to beat Mack for anyone head to head, and Stoops deserves some credit for that.
Changed my SBN user name from WoodrowWilson.
The Ralphie Report - University of Colorado Athletics
Austin v. OKC/Norman
Jon, Austin as well as Boulder beats OKC/Norman in two main categories. Better beverages for adult consumption and better plants for human consumption. Short of that, I think it’s pretty even. Boulder, as you know, is just as nice as Austin, and it’s closer to the slopes, but since the McCartney era, I don’t see players clamoring to come to CU to play Big XII football and not intramurals, brother.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 27, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
That isn't true at all
We are talking about Texas players so that really doesn’t have anything to do with Boulder. But obviously there is a ton more to do in Boulder.
Austin is the state capital, it has the states most prestigious and well known university, it has weather that Texas kids love, for 65% – 75% of the kids in Texas its closer to home, there are more attractive women, there are more/better bars, there is a fantastic music scene, there is much much more from a cultural level, it’s much prettier, and it’s closer to more major metropolitan areas (Dallas, San Antonio, Houston) and the beach. Austin has about 1.7 million people while the entire state of Oklahoma only has about 3. About the only way the city of Norman wins out over Austin with a HS recruit is if the kid is looking for a smaller, more tight knit, less liberal community.
Don’t take that as bashing Norman, I love Norman, and wouldn’t have gone anywhere else if I had it to do over again. But it is no where near “pretty even”.
Changed my SBN user name from WoodrowWilson.
The Ralphie Report - University of Colorado Athletics
I know I'm defending the indefensible
Touche, Jon. I love Austin, I’m jealous of Austin, Austin has a lot of great bars (chalk that up to the superior beverages, as I mentioned earlier), great live music (although I hear that SXSW is quite overrated), and loads of culture and cosmopolitan thinking. The Hill Country is beautiful, I wouldn’t dare knock it.
But that whole “liberal” community cuts both ways. For some players and families, it’s a positive and some it’s a negative. I’m actually a lot more liberal now than when I was 18, when I was 18, I would have been freaked out. Now I dig Austin’s weirdness.
But if location is the primary factor, then explain to me why UT suffered in recruiting from DKR’s retirement to when Mackie arrived on the scene? Why did USC suffer in recruiting from the 1970s Charles White era Trojans until Petey Carroll arrived on the scene?
by HoustonSooner on Jan 27, 2010 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Wait...
So you are saying that because of 6th street (im guessing that is what you are referring to in terms of beverages) and weed (I’m assuming you are asserting that the marijuana in Austin is much better than in Oklahoma) are the two main categories? And everything else is “pretty even”? I think you may be a little off there.
Austin is a city first, that happens to house The University of Texas. There are lakes and rivers for water activities, beautiful hills and landscape in West Austin, tons of live music for every type of listener, South Congress with all of its shops and tourism spots and tons more. Not to mention, people are friendly, open and liberal in Austin. It is a family atmosphere.
The list goes on. I think it would be very silly to suggest that besides drug quality and bar scenes, that Norman and Austin are “pretty even”
I saw an interview on Texas's Rivals site with Darius White where he specifically mentioned how
the readily available opportunities for “water activities” were the deciding factor for where he wanted to play football.
I still think it has more do with coaching personnel than location
by HoustonSooner on Jan 27, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
ummm, location is the #1 factor in determining where the average recruit goes… especially in a state as big as Texas.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 27, 2010 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
Not that I don't believe you,
but is there some definite source that proves this. Please, please, please whatever you do don’t start talking in hypotheticals…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/andy_staples/01/20/recruiting/
Those data complement the findings of a trio of economists who, in 2005, designed a model to predict the college choices of sought-after recruits. The model created by Mike DuMond, Allen Lynch and Jennifer Platania- rabid college football fans who met while Ph D. candidates at Florida State -found that among heavily recruited players choosing from among only BCS-conference schools, distance from home is the most important factor in a recruit’s choice. The model was published in the February 2008 issue of The Journal of Sports Economics.
i guess i should have said “most highly sought after recruit” rather than average, I dont know if the study looked at the “average” player or only “the most sought after”, so it may be possible that the average recruit’s choice is also determined by distance from home.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 28, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
It's actually tough to argue that
You’re using logic rather than emotion….a rare quality in a college football message board. I’ll think of a retort later..
by HoustonSooner on Jan 28, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
my emotions just lead to me laugh, but logically i know a sooner fan cannot be funny….
i am torn.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 29, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
I'll look in the actual article but does
distance work both ways? LIke some kids want to stay close to home, some kids want to get as far away as possible.
Okay just consider this hypothetical,
You’re in a recruiting battle between OU and Texas. From the DFW. You’re a 7 foot 8 super quarterback who can literally throw a football half of a mile. You make your official visit to Austin. Beautiful city, lots of opportunities for boating and rafting. You go to sixth street, someone “affiliated” (Sam Acho) with the university gets you a few adult beverages. You party it up. The next day Mack takes you into the stadium, shows you were Colt got late hit against A&M, you’re in tears thinking “I could be the next Texas football legend. They might name the business school after me if I nearly win the Heisman trophy.” Mack then tells you “Son, we all like Gilbert, but honestly he cost us the national championship. If we had you in the backfield…” Mack then breaks down in tears, sobbing uncontrollably on the twenty five yardline. You walk out uncomfortably. Next weekend you visit Norman. Beautiful town, lots of wind. You visit the museum, see some dinosaur bones. Stoops takes you to Owen Field, shows you the national championship trophy and Bradford’s Heisman. He tells you you’ll get a statue if you win the Heisman. Stoops promptly runs the score up on Missouri in a twisted attempt to bypass Texas in the BCS standings. After the talk with Stoops, you drive by and see the sights, the dorms where Charles Thompson did his “deals,” and of course Big Red Imports. Finally you get back Dallas, it’s signing day all of a sudden. You pick OU, because you hate people who write terrible hypothetical situations to try and justify their argument. You lead OU to four national championships, winning four Heismans, and four triple digit wins over UT.
You are obviously someone who never went thru the recruiting process and
until you do your opinion doesnt meen squat! Antonio Perkins, Jamal Brown, DJ Wolfe and Martin Chase all chose OU due to proximity to home and that it is practically OKC. Out of all the kids I know only 1 chose a school for its coach. Larry Birdine.
That still doesn't explain the cyclical nature of recruiting
That still doesn’t explain how USC was down for a couple of decades and how UT was down (relatively speaking) from the time the Okie Royal retired until Mackie came on board. Coaching has almost everything to do with this. Granted, all things being equal and if the coaching staffs have equally persuasive pitchmen, and you have an equal chance for significant playing time early on and a low risk of being relegated to redshirt status, and an equal chance to develop your NFL prospects, then I guess location is the tiebreak. But we’re not talking about Austin and Seattle here or Austin and Ann Arbor, we’re talking about Austin and Norman, a freaking 6-hour drive and 60-90 minute plane flight distance away from each other.
If you’re let’s say Northshore’s Bobby Reid in Stillwater (which is to Norman as Lubbock is to Austin), maybe you miss your mom’s home cooking and you’re not a man and 40 yet so you’re homesick. We’ll in that case location did matter more than NFL prospects (becuase he was never going to play ahead of Zac Robinson), because the season after the controversy Mr. Reid transferred back home to Texas Southern.
To a Texan, leaving Texas must be very traumatic and a huge culture shock. And to you, it might be too traumatic to bear, but I would like to think football players have a little more fortitude. I left Oklahoma to come to Texas, I like living in Texas, Texas has it’s advantages and a lot more employment opportunities, but sometimes people don’t want to go school in their parents’ backyard. And most of these players are not basing their decisions on South Congress or 6th Street or Lake Travis or the employment or educational opportunities, and that’s the truth. I’m not bashing Austin or the state of Texas, I’m just saying that it’s not inconceivable that people would want to leave to go see the world.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 28, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
so what is the #1 reason recruits go to a school? since you don’t think it’s proximity to home.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 28, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
Edjumication!
….
LMAO….I couldn’t type that with a straight face.
"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."
I would think proximity to home is a factor, but
Of the blue-chippers we’re talking about, I would think the top three factors are playing time, NFL prospects, and coaching personnel in that order. But those three reasons are intertwined. I would say fourth is location..but I’m still trying to come up with a logical argument to counter that Journal of Sports Econ article.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 28, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
and it still doesn't explain why
schools such as Texas, USC, Miami,Florida etc. ever suffer down periods
by HoustonSooner on Jan 28, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Listen I agree with those factors come into play
but you dont see these kids from Houston picking Rice or U of H over OU, Texas so on so fourth. They are chosing Big name schools. Man we are not disagreeing that some of these kids choose USC over Texas so he can see the world (Emanual Moody). We are saying the number 1 factors are proximity to home, family and friends. Thats why they choose a group of the big name schools around them, then they choose depth chart, coaches, school and what not. With most kids 90% of these kids that is how it works. Now with Emanual Moody he later left USC and transfered to Florida. He obviously want to see the whole world.
With down times.
Man I dont know. I do think the decline fo the SWC with the constant probations, the death penalty of SMU the rise of the East Coast schools. FSU, Miami the SEC other than Bama. The lack of money that was pumped into the athletic program at Texas at that time. Before Mack came to Texas he wanted to know what the school ws going to do financially to improve the facilities of the athletic program. USC was caught cheating several times. Now in Florida the whole SEC is feeding off the state of Florida. It could just possibly be that the loss of those players are taking its toll on the schools.
Im not catching you
I never said that distance doesnt matter. Alot of those kids that left Texas because of the issues went to OU, LSU and Arkansas. Alot of those kids stayed in Texas and played at Texas A&M. When every school in the state is trouble where is the kid to go.
Look at the rise of Nebraska after OU got in trouble. All the kids that would have gone to OU in the Midwest all went to Nebraska because it was the closest power to them.
You admit it then, program quality is the most important factor.
Distance might be a deciding factor but program quality, which depends mostly on the coach and facilities is the main factor.
I never said the program wasnt.
If I truelly thought that the quality of the program didnt matter then Houston, Rice, UCLA, SMU, TCU and S. Florida would all be competeing for the MNC year in and year out. What I am saying is the closest powers are the ones going to land the kids most of the time. If there is a tie when all is said and done then the closest school usually wins. If they are similar in distance then it is the state. Again that is most of the time. Not everytime.
Maybe like 55-45. But I still don't think it matters as much as you think.
I’ll admit this, Texas has had more recent success than OU. Blue chippers will follow…
I think
You’re on to something there Dutch. I’ve been thinking the same thing. Obviously OU played in the MNC game last year, but as we’re all painfully aware it was their third loss in a row in that game. The perception of OU vs. UT is in their favor right now, right or wrong. Add in texass’s advantage in the RRSO recently and I think it’s a combo of the two. I think it’s that simple. Back when we were taking kids out of TX on a regular basis we owned Mack and were acutally winning bowl games (sort of).
Where are they to go play?
UNLV? Were these kids eligible to go to Cal? Were they offered by USC, UCLA, so on so forth. I am not saying there are not exceptions. Stoops does a great job of finding the exceptions. What we are saying is that if all is tied, distance wins most of the time.
So we actually agree after all
I never said distance wasn’t a factor, I just stated I didn’t think that distance was as big of factor as some others like program quality, coaching, chance for playing time, etc.
And I said distance was a tie-break all things being equal. You mentioned Houston, occasionally Sumlin will get a blue-chipper from the Houston metro area that normally would have gone to UT,A&M, or OU but most of those players are going to go to BCS conference schools before a school in the mediocre Conference USA.
And speaking of the article (didn’t have a chance to read it), what years did the article focus on?
If location was the only factor, this discussion wouldn’t be nearly as interesting.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 28, 2010 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
I have no Idea. I didnt read the article.
It looks like we do. Just put in different ways.
Here's a good question.
Let’s say all the Texas and Oklahoma schools are have having down years. Where do the blue chippers go? The SEC? Arkansas? LSU? Tennessee (although they are having a down period right now)?
by HoustonSooner on Jan 28, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
It depends on status of the other programs.
I would think in this scenario, the dominant Big 12 Team, Alabama, Florida, Ohio State, and whatever emerges to fill the USC power vacuum on the west coast, whether a resurgent USC or other Pac-10 team.
Status and recent success
there is always some program in any conference that is doing well, someone has to win. So I think they go to the “hot” team at the moment.
"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."
Hilarious
SoonerDutch, your post made me laugh so hard that I don’t think I can go back to work now. The image of Mack sobbing uncontrollably on the 25-yard line is the height of hilarity and I want to preserve that mental image in my mind. When I need to go to my happy place, I will see that image.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 28, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
After looking at the data in the article,
I still think they’re underestimating coaching. For a blue chipper, they’ll probably stay close to home, but only if that local school is a powerhouse. And powerhouse status largely depends on quality coaching.
Okay, let's ask the question this way
If UT-Austin doesn’t have Bobby Kennedy as its WR Coach and DFW Recruiter do they still land Darius White and possibly Jeffcoat?
Who knows...
Does OU still land McFarland without Jackie Shipp? Every school has great recruiters who form bonds with certain kids. See the LSU recruiter who left for Memphis and the running back from Temple.
the lsu recruiter loss may also have had a factor in the mike davis decommit… but i dont know that i’ve read alot about that connection
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 29, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
Here's a solution find some talent in Oklahoma
If you don’t like Texas so much why do poach all the talent in the state. Just sayin!
Don't know why I'm responding to this but
Oklahoma=3,687,050 souls
Texas=24,782,302 souls
Texas has 6.7 times the population of Oklahoma. This is why OU must recruit in Texas.
I don’t mean to sound condescending, but I can’t believe I actually have to explain this to somebody.
Just sayin!
by HoustonSooner on Jan 29, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
U should love Texas
Will than you guys should love Texas, because without us you guys wouldn’t have much of a team! Oh and by the way OU doesn’t have to recruit from Texas but they do anyways because they know that’s where the talent is. Just remember your other neighboring states are: Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico. You know Oklahoma remind me of a lot like Mexico the citizens like to complain about Americans but with out us they would fall apart!
so we’re mexico and oklahoma is the south west?
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 29, 2010 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
mexicans complain about americans, but they’d fall apart without us?
we’re the ones bitching about them stealing our jobs, and building silly walls while wondering why it’s getting so expensive to get manual labor.
mexico = texas with all the hard working talent
US = oklahoma who bitches about Texas, but needs them to mow their yards, clean their homes, win their games etc
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 30, 2010 2:24 AM CST up reply actions
kcmorse
Despite what you’ve been told, the actual state of Texas and the University of Texas are actually two entirely different entities. Much like the fact that every high school football player in the state of Texas isn’t already a Texas Longhorn. I know these things can be pretty confusion, so take your time trying to process that.
No one is questioning that TX high school football has more talented players than OK high school football. Oh and next time, try and save the geography analogies for when you’re not drunk. They tend to make at least a little bit of sense.
Let’s go with “things can be pretty confusing”, sense you feel the need to correct somebody.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
What?
I’m stunned by this remark. Oklahoma needs Texas to mow their yards and clean their homes? Really. Well, what what Texas be without all the immigrants that come down from Oklahoma and make Texas their home because of the brain drain that has always existed? Where would Texas be without the contributions of T. Boone Pickens, Bud Adams (bad example but he did make a lot of contributions bringing pro football to Houston before Mayor Lanier and city leaders more or less ran him and the Oilers out of town in a similar situation to what Mayor Nickels and the city leaders of Seattle did running the Sonics and Clay Bennett out of town), and last but not least Darrell K. Royal, from Hollis, Oklahoma, still the career interception leader in The University of…..Oklahoma history,..that’s right…No Whorn fan has ever thanked us for giving Royal to you all….Your welcome.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 30, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
As a Texas grad
and of some Mexican heritage, I think you are a fool. Way to make yourself look like a complete idiot and make the rest of the Texas fan base sound stupid and immature.
That's a reference to what the soul weighs
since you were comparing the number of souls in each state.
Let's see if we can put the fanpost to rest
What have we learned from this discussion?
Here are my conclusions. First, OU will probably (at least while Mackie, Muschamp, and Kennedy reside in Austin) always be at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting in Texas (even in the DFW area) against UT-Austin. We have disagreed on the reasons why this is the case or if there’s a downward trend, but the fact remains this is the case.
We should probably take the positive attitude that Texas players of the caliber of Jackson Jeffcoat and Darius White will almost invariably want to hang out in Austin with Mackie and, if OU is in the running or in the final two, it’s still a positive sign of the program quality Bob Stoops has built in Norman. And, if by chance, we do manage to convince a blue-chipper that UT-Austin really wants to leave Texas and come to school at the friendlier, more laid-back school north of the Red River, we should consider that a victory. We should celebrate every time that happens. If you have any Whorn friends, whether you taunt them in this case is up to you.
Two, OU fans really need to start rooting for Mike Sherman and the A&M boys to pick up the pace and become more competitive in recruiting in Houston and in east Texas. OU needs A&M to take some of the blue-chippers UT really wants. If A&M convinces a blue-chipper that UT-Austin really wants to come to school at the friendlier, more laid-back school in College Station and hang out with the cadets and Revielle, we should consider that a victory. We should celebrate every time that happens. As in # 1, if you have any Whorn friends, whether you taunt them in this case is up to you.
Three, OU really needs to play a little dirty (without violating NCAA rules). UT-Austin is doing the negative recruiting and promising recruits that they will be “taken care of” by Whorn alums if they choose Mackie over Bob. Even though we have a smaller base of alums, we still have plenty of alums in the DFW and Houston areas who will happy to “take care of” ex-Sooner players from Texas who decide to come back home after their collegiate and professional days are through so they will not be ostracized by their fellow Texans. (Jerome Solomon wrote a column in the Houston Chronicle where he addressed this phenomenon. Adrian Peterson went from being a great HS RB to sucking overnight because he dared to choose not to play for the Burnt Orange crowd. Whorn media influence is pervasive and ubiquitous in Texas in the print, television, and sports radio and we need to be constantly defending our guys like Jamarkus Mcfarland and his family from unwarranted attacks and slander from the Burnt Orange Mafia.
Fourth, we must not have conference loyalty and must root against UT-Austin at every turn no matter who they play no matter if there opponent is Wyoming or any of their stellar non-conference opponents. If UT-Austin loses, OU wins.
Fifth, even though I should end this on a classy note, we must always say….“No one looks good in orange.” and Texas (the university and not the state) still sucks!
i disagree with almost everything you just said, please defend yourself further.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 30, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
Just making the case for the OU side
On how OU can better recruit in Texas so, of course, I would expect you to disagree. I would happy to defend specific points if you care to be more specific.
by HoustonSooner on Jan 30, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
At the friendlier more laid back school
In colleyville? You really think that A&M is more friendly and laid back then Texas? You must be smoking some goooooood stuff.
KC
Man I cant believe I agree with these guys on this but man you sounded pretty dumb there. If they lived in Texas and hated it than yes move back north. But Recruiting? Dont go there with that again. You just give them gas to throw on the fire.
Okay, Maybe OU isn't that bad off
Ohio State can’t even retain Ohio players. What a rollercoaster ride!
http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2010/02/01/four-top-recruits-in-ohio-pass-on-the-buckeyes-columbus-descends-into-panic-but-it-shouldnt/
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