The Tragic Comedy Of The BCS

by ccmachine on Nov 25, 2008 5:29 PM CST in Football Comment 46 comments

Reading through the comments on various fan sites (including this one) is much like suffering through a Will Ferrell movie. You get a bunch of stupidity and very little substenance. The BCS argument won’t be settled because it just can’t be. The situation that OU, Texas Tech and Texas are in is so illogical that that the college football world just can’t wrap their heads around it and make it make any sense.

Don’t get me wrong. Many fans have left some quality posts and made some outstanding arguments. It’s that most of them are invalid because they ignore the facts. Some of it is out of pride and some of it is out of ignorance but it seems that every fan has a strong opinion about where their team should be come next weekend as well as on January 8^th. As I read through the posts and comments around the web I can’t help but laugh at some of the logic out there as fans lobby for their teams. There needs to be some guidelines established though for the campaigns. Here are a few suggestions:

* Any argument that tosses Texas Tech out the window should be deemed null-and-void. As long as the three teams all have the same record Texas Tech is a major player in this deal. Yes, it is convenient for Oklahoma fans to have them in there because the Sooners can’t stand on their own. Yes, it is convenient for Texas fans to put the Red Raiders out to pasture because it causes the Sooner argument to collapse. Neither one of those should be reasons for the Red Raiders to be included or excluded for that matter. Tech is in there because they earned their way in and you can’t make an argument otherwise.

* Any argument that uses a head-to-head approach must also include how damaging their own loss is to their cause. Had Oklahoma not lost to the Longhorns they would be the #1 team in the country right now. Texas could also be the #1 team in the country had they not lost to Tech and the Red Raiders could still be the nation’s #2 team had they not lost to Oklahoma.

A head-to-head comparison only becomes valid when the race is between two teams. It is the simplest of all the solutions but it just doesn’t apply at this time. B.O.N. has a post about how the Longhorns loss wasn’t as bad as Oklahoma’s. It doesn’t matter if you lost on the very last play of the game, if you couldn’t close the door in the 4^th quarter or if the game was over by halftime it is represented equally in the loss column with a 1. Before the BONers take their 45-35 Campaign too far they need to stop and consider another score, 39-33. Putting on your Ray Ban Sunglasses doesn’t mean that they black eye is gone.

*Any argument that focuses on “the hot team” should be immediately discredited. These three teams are a combined 30-3. They are all the hot teams! This damages Oklahoma’s argument more than anything else but I also feel that it is as irrelevant as the, “Texas Tech shouldn’t be included because…” argument. All three teams are hot and have represented the Big 12 South extremely well. They should all three be commended for their play.

So how do we decide who should go to Kansas City by following those rules of argument. We don’t! That is what is so comical about this whole ordeal. We, the fans, have no voice in this BCS mess. It will be the coaches, the Harris Poll and the computers who will ultimately make that decision. There is no amount of lobbying that will change that either. Sunday night two teams are going to get hosed in the eyes of their fans. That is the tragic part of this ordeal. The comical part is that we all actually think that we know what we are talking about. You think opinions are strong now? Just wait until Sunday night!

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Thanks

for being one of the few with a dog in this hunt to not completely discredit Tech. Yes, we’re the new kid on the block, but we’re on the block none the less. We have a lot to prove to be considered an elite team. We need to be in this position more than once every 30 years, for one. But we are really, really good this year. The fact that OU pounded us just emphasizes how powerful OU is. The fact that Texas led vs. Tech for a total of 1:28 seems to be forgotten in the “lucky” Tech win, as well.

It’s been a phenomenal season for the Big XII and yes, two of us (probably OU and Tech) will get hosed. But it’s looking like OU will have a nice BCS consolation prize to help get over the slight from the national championship game, while we have to “settle” for the Cotton Bowl. I don’t like it, but I’ll take it. And I’ll be rooting for both UT and OU in their respective games to stomp the living s*** out of whomever is unfortunate enough to play them. Gives us all that much more credibility.

by Tech92 on Nov 25, 2008 5:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not trying to be a homer here but...

…If the Sooners beat OSU in Stillwater Saturday night they will jump over Texas in the BCS poll according to Jerry Palm and others.

Key to TT building on this season is keeping Leach and not letting him get away to Tenn. or elsewhere.

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 25, 2008 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

But from my incessant web digging today, it looks like Leach’s opportunities could be slowly fading. Tennessee looks to possibly have a deal in place with Lane Kiffin, Clemson is leaning towards keeping Dabo Swinney, and Washington isn’t really high on Leach and his lack of west coast connections (looks like he’d be their fourth or fifth option). Other jobs will open up, just not many that could be considered a step up from Tech.

And you’re right. OU is the only one who controls this thing right now. Win out and you’re in, as far as i can reasonably tell. Two or three people think Tech could leap over UT and play for the national title if OU lost to Mizzou. That’s wishful thinking…and it bums me out that there’s literally no chance of that happening.

by Tech92 on Nov 25, 2008 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lane Kiffin Is A Bad Idea For The Vols

And Washington would be a step down for Leach.

by ccmachine on Nov 25, 2008 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a much tougher argument

Not saying that it’s not valid, but I don’t sense an 11-1 Tech with the head-to-head win and no conference title is going to get the edge over an 11-1 Texas.

I do think a 12-1 conference champion Tech will get some serious play as a contender versus an 11-1 Texas.

by DoubleB on Nov 26, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tech92 read any of my posts

I think TT is a good team and last Saturday night proved again that on any given saturday any team can beat another, the Sooners were just elevated and had the chip on the shoulder attitude. But it Texass gets in the B12CG I wi root for Mizzou.

by scarab on Nov 26, 2008 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Excellent post

Easily, the most rational post on this entire thing that I’ve seen in 3 days by someone with a dog in the fight.

The real issue with discrediting Tech is that Texas wants to punish Tech for getting blown out, but not reward the team that actually caused the blowout. Anytime an argument starts with OU looked TOO good, that’s when we hit the absurd scale.

by DoubleB on Nov 26, 2008 9:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hear's a question

If we lose to the god forsaken Pokes then what bowl do we play in? Cotton? HOLIDAY? (I just threw up in my mouth a little at that thought…)

The Ralphie Report - University of Colorado Athletics

by Jon Woods on Nov 26, 2008 10:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Should OU Lose

Then I would think that we’d be spending New Year’s Eve in Dallas for the Cotton Bowl.

by ccmachine on Nov 26, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

there is a chance

The Cotton Bowl would select OSU over OU with a Choke Poke victory. Either way the other will be in the Holliday

OU Wins:
OU to the BCS NC
UT to the Fiesta
TT to the Cotton Bowl
OSU/Missouri to the Holliday
Missour/OSU to the Alamo Bowl
Kansas/Nebraska to the Insight Bowl
Nebraska/Kansas to the Independence
*Nebraska is not yet bowl eligible and needs a win Friday against Colorado
Texas Bowl looks to be unfilled by a Big 12 team

OSU wins:
UT or TT to the BCS NC
TT or UT to the Fiesta Bowl
OU or OSU to the Cotton Bowl
OSU or OU to the Holliday Bowl

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Nov 26, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've repeated this several times here

And I’m honestly getting a little tired of people saying that Texas is “trying” to discredit Tech for simply self-serving reasons.

"Tech is in there because they earned their way in and you can’t make an argument otherwise. "

Did Tech “earn” their way? Possibly. Fair or not, THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE BCS STANDINGS. OU fans are accusing Horns fans for disingenuously axing Tech. That’s not true. We’re making a conclusion based on OBSERVATION of the BCS standings. It is Oklahoma fans who are disingenuously pretending that Tech has a chance in a three way tie. Because Horns fans know that in ANY INSTANCE OF A THREE-WAY TIE, the only two teams who have a hope are Texas and Oklahoma, we are arguing that voters should view closely at those two teams. Do Texas fans pretend that Tech doesn’t exist? Of course not. Do Texas fans think the results against Tech outweigh the results in Dallas? Now that’s what we have a problem with.

Before OU fans go about accusing Texas for falsely excluding Tech, then I await a good argument that shows that Tech has A) A chance at the Big 12 title in a three way tie and B) A legitimate chance at the national title. Don’t just use “should” or “would.” Use observations of the BCS. If not, then stop the accusations. Even Tech fans are getting slightly annoying in this, because they think Tech fans are just getting crapped on by Horns fans. No, you got crapped on by the BCS. Go get mad at them. We’re just reporting the facts.

So once again, if you want to keep saying that Texas fans “want to punish” Tech or anything of the sort… show us that Tech has a chance to emerge out of a three way tie. We’re not emphasizing the OU and Texas comparison because it’s “convenient.” It’s simply a BCS fact.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 26, 2008 12:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That entire argument rests on the simple premise that Tech is removed from the equation, not because they lost, but because they got blown out. And yet, Oklahoma doesn’t get rewarded for being the team that put on the beatdown.

Again, if Tech lost by 10 points on Saturday night would you be making this argument? Probably not because Tech would have been higher in the BCS standings. Any argument that PUNISHES Oklahoma for beating Tech by TOO MANY points is absolutely absurd.

by DoubleB on Nov 26, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

It’s a tired argument that is self-serving to the Longorns and isn’t rational.

by ccmachine on Nov 26, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+2

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 26, 2008 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Amazing

“That entire argument rests on the simple premise that Tech is removed from the equation, not because they lost, but because they got blown out.”

When did I make this argument? I await in vain for somebody to show me.

ccmachine, you, and others are completely ignoring the point of my argument as well as others’. It is not us who are arbitrarily removing Tech. We’re simply POINTING TO THE BCS STANDINGS, IN WHICH WE HAVE NO PART, and arguing that it is absolutely disingenuous to pretend Tech can win a three way tiebreaker.

Did we punish Tech for getting creamed? Nope. Like I said, both the computers and humans alike have eliminated Tech’s chances to emerge victorious in a three way tie.

It is utterly amazing how many people continue to promote this lie. CCmachine, I will ask you ONE MORE TIME, if you really want to accuse Longhorns for being “self-serving,” then you need to construct a logical case that is about the BCS standings and show that Tech has a chance in a three way tie-breaker. Otherwise, it is OU fans who are being self-serving, for they are bringing in a team that has no chance to bolster their own.

It is simple logic, people.

Again, my challenge, because everyone is trying to ignore it: Argue for Tech. Do it now. We are all listening.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 26, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm wasting my time

A) OU loses to OSU
B)Tech Beats Missouri in KC
C) Tech is the Big 12 Champ with an 11-1 record (including a win over Texas)
D) All of that equals a better resume than anything Texas could put together and would bump them back up in the BCS Standings.

How you say? We’ll under that scenerio Oklahoma would have lost, and either Florida or Bama is going to lose. Plus they would have the added advantage of playing on the big stage in KC on national television which would give them another advantage in the computers and would undoubtable woo more votes.

I know that you just can’t accept this but it is a very real possibility and you are anyone esle saying that it just ain’t so shows nothing but arrogance and ignorance.

by ccmachine on Nov 26, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually that would be a 12-1 record!

My bad. I was typing out of frustration!

by ccmachine on Nov 26, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You are indeed wasting your time

And mine with that response, with all due respect.

You either willfully ignored my challenge or misinterpreted it.

Here it is:

CCmachine, I will ask you ONE MORE TIME, if you really want to accuse Longhorns for being "self-serving," then you need to construct a logical case that is about the BCS standings and show that Tech has a chance in a three way tie-breaker.

And here’s your scenario:

A) OU loses to OSU
B)Tech Beats Missouri in KC
C) Tech is the Big 12 Champ with an 11-1 record (including a win over Texas)
D) All of that equals a better resume than anything Texas could put together and would bump them back up in the BCS Standings.

Needless to say, this is not a three-way tiebreak. OF COURSE Tech can win the Big 12 and thereby get a better resume than Texas if OU loses. I’ve said that before multiple times. What I, and other Horns fans, have been saying is that Tech HAS NO CHANCE TO WIN THE THREE WAY TIE-BREAK. Your response is therefore worthless.

CCmachine, I respect the way you run this site, but if you want to call others arrogant and ignorant, read more carefully and answer the arguments.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 26, 2008 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I Give Up!

Fly your plane over the OSU stadium (by the way who will be able to see it at night) you guys are clearly the best team in the land and all other should be completely ashamed for even daring to play in your conference.

Texas is the best!

by ccmachine on Nov 26, 2008 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This response is beneath you

You fail to acknowledge you didn’t answer my arguments and now accusing me of just willy nilly concluding that “Texas is the best.” Indeed, with that beatdown of Texas Tech, OU is the best and all others should be ashamed.

Come now, you’re better than that.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 27, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He didn't have a response....

to anything you asked him. I’m copying and pasting this “argument” and keeping for later. Sad day for ccmachine.

Hook'em

by TEXAS_FIGHT07 on Nov 27, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

When you earn the right to be in this conversation we'll let you know

copy that!

by ccmachine on Nov 27, 2008 6:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Earn the right to be in a conversation with someone from oklahoma????

Please kid, just because you are moderator of a f’ing blog doesn’t mean shit.

Hook'em

by TEXAS_FIGHT07 on Nov 28, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Plus....

there was no conversation, you had no response as Shadow schooled you. You could get mad and respond to this post or go back and respond to his, which you never did.

Hook'em

by TEXAS_FIGHT07 on Nov 28, 2008 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well..It is what it is

You have taken the only angle that gives Texas a 100% chance of winning this thing and you are holding on to it as a lifeline. However, it is only a small part of a very big picture. It would be like me arguing that there is no way Texas can win a tie breaker against Tech if OU were removed from the equation. However, that is a silly argument because OU is still very much involved here as is Tech.

What I feel you’ve done is put the cart before the horse. If this week were next week then I would actually agree with what you’ve said but it isn’t. As long as TT has an opportunity to win the Big 12 they are in this thing and should be a part of the equation. You, sir, won’t admit that you just maintain a position that doesn’t take in the entire reality of the situation.

by ccmachine on Nov 27, 2008 6:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No I haven't

I have concluded based on the BCS that Tech cannot win a three-way tiebreak; that’s why even Oklahoma fans are arguing EXCLUSIVELY AGAINST TEXAS. They do not bring 65-21 to the team they just beat; they are trying to use a sort of transitive property to apply that to Texas. If OU fans believed Tech had a chance to win the tiebreak, they wouldn’t be doing that.

So I ask again, if Tech has a chance to win the three way tiebreak, then show us how this is so. I didn’t make this up; I don’t control the BCS. I wish I did, because then I’d destroy everything and institute and playoff, but I don’t.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 29, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Texas Tech had lost by 10 in a well-contested game, or by 7, or by 3 in OT do you honestly believe Texas Tech would have fallen to 8th in the coaches poll and 7th in the Harris poll?

If so, you’re stating that Oklahoma’s fate was preordained and that there was NOTHING they could have done Saturday night to win this “argument”. Tech loses, they fall too low because they lost last, and then we go to a head-to-head tiebreaker, whether they lost by 3 or 103.

by DoubleB on Nov 26, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

“If Texas Tech had lost by 10 in a well-contested game, or by 7, or by 3 in OT do you honestly believe Texas Tech would have fallen to 8th in the coaches poll and 7th in the Harris poll?”

I obviously do not control the coaches or Harris poll voters (if I did, I would gladly destroy the whole system), but I do believe they would have placed Penn State and USC over Tech. Fair? I don’t think so. It’s also silly that Alabama doesn’t have every #1 vote right now.

Again, all this happened not because the Horns fans just wish it. If I had that power, like I said, I’d blow up the whole system. OU did as much as they could to help their cause, and it seems like the poll voters bought into it; you do realize that OU got #1 votes (as well as Florida) over an UNDEFEATED Alabama team right now.

Because OU lost to Texas, obviously they are coming from behind, and that is difficult if Texas does not flop. We haven’t exactly fallen off the map since the OU game or Tech game. As a whole, I believe Texas has the superior overall resume, and I believe that the Tech game by itself could not and should not override that. Of course, OU has a golden opportunity to try to blow out OSU and impress a lot more people.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 27, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And one more thing, DoubleB

“any argument that PUNISHES Oklahoma for beating Tech by TOO MANY points is absolutely absurd.”

Nobody is doing that (unless you interpret OU gaining #1 votes and Tech getting shot down as “punishing OU”). OU got rewarded, probably too much so (there’s no reason why Alabama is not the unanimous #1 right now). Do you think Horns fans wanted an OU blowout? However, even if they did not blow out Tech by that much, it is doubtful Tech would have stayed ahead of the likes of USC, Florida, and Penn State. In fact, I’d guarantee that wouldn’t have. OU gained a lot for blowing out Tech. Tech still would be the odd-team out in a three way tiebreak; the thing that might have changed there would be that they would still be in the national title hunt if they won the Big 12.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 26, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

The “argument” you’re making punishes OU for the blowout. In reality, OU has to be pretty happy with the way things turned out on Saturday night.

If they don’t get blown out, I have no idea where they would rank. Hell, maybe a bad call in OT and they would still be #2 right now anyway. I have no idea. I do think the Big XII South has garnered much respect this year and a close game would have had them much higher in the human polls (ahead of Utah, USC, and Penn State). The size and general magnitude of the loss is what really hurt Texas Tech in the polls. Look where 11-0 Michigan was ranked 2 years ago after losing on the road by 3 to 11-0 Ohio State (in a game that frankly wasn’t that close).

My question to you is this, what would be your argument if Tech WAS in the BCS tiebreaker picture? What if they were a close 4th, 3rd, or even 2nd right now?

by DoubleB on Nov 26, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair question

My question to you is this, what would be your argument if Tech WAS in the BCS tiebreaker picture? What if they were a close 4th, 3rd, or even 2nd right now?

Thank for being the first person to acknowledge that Tech is out of that scenario.

Obviously, then Horns fans’ arguments will also emphasize Tech’s overall resume compared to the other two. People just don’t seem to realize that we’re just being prudent; we know Tech is out, so we don’t have to bother with arguing about them so much and the tiebreak is exclusively between OU and Texas. If Tech was in the mix, either as a really close third (like ranked #4) or even as second (ranked #3 and Texas ranked #4), then obviously all three teams remain alive in a three way tiebreak. Our arguments would reflect that accordingly, bringing in both teams relative strength of schedule, venues of play, etc.

Because I believe Tech has the weaker overall computer scores and just play Baylor, even in the above instance they’d still have an extremely tough time winning the tiebreak. But in that case, MAYBE if they blew out Baylor by 100 and Texas and OU looked positively terrible in their wins, Tech could recapture enough human votes to override their weaker computer scores and leapfrog OU and Texas. But even then, that’d be a far off scenario.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 27, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you for . .

proving my point. That’s the argument you should be making from the get-go (and I’ll point out for fairness that a number of those are legitimate).

by DoubleB on Nov 27, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The more you guys cry the funnier it is

1) it’s just a game
2) YOU personally can’t do a damn thing about it
3) Texas HAS a case….so does OU….and even so does Texas Tech. One of those 3 will be happy….2 will be pissed.

No go away, and quit crying.

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Nov 26, 2008 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Worthless response

1) Of course it’s just a game. And that’s why we’re having these fun debates.
2) Of course I can’t do anything personally about it. Which is why I find the arguments “YOU’RE just trying to punish Tech for getting whipped and OU for winning by too much” as amusing, because indeed, I have no such power to “punish” anyone.
3) I agree both have a case. The question is who has the stronger case.

Quit crying and deal with the relevant arguments. Otherwise, remove yourself from the discussion.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 27, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's like arguing with a ignorant redneck here.....

Oh wait, that’s exactly what we are doing. 45-35

Hook'em

by TEXAS_FIGHT07 on Nov 27, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You son are the ignorant redneck

by scarab on Nov 27, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No dad, you live in oklahomo.....

SON!!!!!!!! ha, you are funny and a bumpkin.

Hook'em

by TEXAS_FIGHT07 on Nov 28, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+2

by scarab on Nov 26, 2008 7:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tech Isn't Out of It

From the standpoint that if OU loses to OSU and Tech takes care of business against Baylor, then it becomes a two-way tie with Tech’s win over Texas being the tiebreaker.

And for the sake of argument, if Tech were to go on to beat Mizzou in the bitter KC December cold, how would you justify keeping Texas ahead of them in the BCS standings?

Anyway, back the three-way-tie scenario. Yes, their 44 point loss last week put them out. Shouldn’t the team that gave them that beat down enjoy some kind of a benefit in the BCS Standings? I guess I just don’t buy into the 45-35 argument being the sole decider in this debate. It gives Texas a nice advantage, but not an insurmountable one.

by Brandon Bibb on Nov 27, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, that argument doesn't fly

If you would just listen to the elusiveshadow he’ll explaing how that part of the scenerio should be left out because Texas beat OU by 10 points meaning that the Red Raiders no longer have a chance to pass the Longhorns in the BCS.

by ccmachine on Nov 27, 2008 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Please... listen carefully

The reason we’re debating the BCS standings because they only become relevant in the case of a three way tie. Of course Tech can win if OU loses. THAT’S NOT THE POINT, BECAUSE THE BCS STANDINGS WILL NO LONGER MATTER IN THAT SCENARIO. The point is that because the way the BCS is, if you’re going to use that as a tiebreaker between three teams, Tech is out of it. If you disagree, show us how Tech can emerge from a three-way tie. If not, stop this awful arguments that don’t even address the points.

by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 29, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs